North Wright Air

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Rowdy
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Re: North Wright Air

Post by Rowdy »

It always makes me scratch my head when people sell themselves short.. even more so, when they KNOW they are degrading their own future. Not to mention everyone else's around them.

Last I checked, you were on the ramp, in the office and generally being a grunt for at least a year before flying. Sure there is progression… but only those desperate to keep people around would deduct pay while on the ramp and then ding you with a flying bond.
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shimmydampner
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Re: North Wright Air

Post by shimmydampner »

Getting all indignant about low wages and bonds is all well and good if you enjoy wasting your breath/key strokes. The fact of the matter is, however, that having a CPL and 200 hours entitles you to jack squat. It just gets you entry into an industry that is over-saturated with people with identical qualifications to you and that doesn't have enough job prospects for all of you. The result is that some people will have to tough it out at places like the above mentioned, or risk never getting that elusive first job. It's funny that no one gets all up in arms about the pathetic starting wages at the mainline level. Is it because the trade-off to fly a jet is worth it?

Let's not forget that money shouldn't be the only consideration here. A person's time and the experience they gain is a valuable thing as well. It seems to me that when a person is done their 4 year tenure at NW, they are coming out of it with a very solid base of experience, a good chunk of PIC time, and a PPC on some pretty relevant machines. Contrast that to a more "fortunate" soul who likely spent 2 years on the ramp and is likely in their second year of right seat duties with a ways to go before they see the left seat. Or worse yet, they're in the right seat of 705 with no PIC time, no way to get it and no hope of upgrading. They might end up with a former NW employee as their next captain. Which person spent their 4 years more wisely?

Everything is a trade off and you don't get something for nothing. If a person decides that trading a little bit of earning potential and some time in the Wells is worth getting a bit further faster and with better experience than their contemporaries, who are you to judge. Everybody is just trying to do what's best for them, with the information they have available. At the end of the day, only they will be able to say if it was worth it or not.
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DanWEC
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Re: North Wright Air

Post by DanWEC »

The ramp time is less at NW than other companies, and sounds like you'll have some good experience at the end, but that 4 year withholding bond is absurd. Why not lower turnover by paying a decent wage up front and letting natural selection take hold as to who wants to stay there? It may not be for everyone but it'll be paradise for a few I'm sure. In any corporation that's the key to retention and morale- It usually costs less to retain than to train.

Then there's the practice of carrot dangling..... But it's not necessarily the employers fault for involving themselves in that sort of methodology, it's the employee's for taking it and allowing it to perpetuate. But it started from somewhere- Employees with no employer loyalty leads to more of it. It costs a lot to train a new employee in aviation, and with a big sigh, I get bonds. It's just easier than trying to trust you're hiring the right guy to stick around.

As an aside, The argument of ramp time/paying your dues, etc. has been beaten to death, each camp has their perspectives (I personally think it's pure exploitation, but it's business...) but I'd really like to know one thing....
You ask a competent CP, especially one who works for a ramp-to-line company, this scenario:
It's the first revenue flight for a fresh right seater in your Ho/B200. You're the captain and you develop a nasty stomach bug enroute and are completely incapacitated. Who do you want in the right seat? A 200 hour fresh cpl that has spent 2 years on the ground, not a single flight hour in those 2 years before the PCC, with an excellent work ethic and a fantastic command of where all the cleaning products in the hangar are stored, OR a 1000 hour flight instructor with the moderate experience that goes along with it?
While neither is perfect, I have a pretty good idea who "should" be the better choice.

It's true that 200 hrs and a CPL doesn't get you squat, but how does 200 hours, a CPL, and loading bags for 2 years make you a safer pilot??
Anyhow, that's a bit of a tangent. To sum up; To each their own, life isn't a dress rehearsal- make good choices for YOU.
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Last edited by DanWEC on Fri Dec 27, 2013 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Donald
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Re: North Wright Air

Post by Donald »

shimmydampner wrote: It's funny that no one gets all up in arms about the pathetic starting wages at the mainline level.

You've never opened a thread about Encore?
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flyinhigh
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Re: North Wright Air

Post by flyinhigh »

There is no real thought to this. This practise is a joke.

The company is withholding wages for 4 YEARS. Last time I checked no company in the world has a 4 YEAR contract, and they want this to fly ok aircraft out of a shitty base. The way to solve turn over is pay a respectable wage, PERIOD.

Our company scale was ok when I started, in the last 4 months we have implemented a pay scale that will potentially pay a King Air captain 90K, plus full health benefits and a pension plan. Since this has been implemented we have had a Zero turn over rate and only have 1 pilot that will be leaving us for AC in the near future. Prior to this new system our turn over was about 50% though.

The benefit to our company having no turn over. Minimal training costs, Highly expeierenced pilots on every flight, and something even better is our clientele see's the same pilot every time so they feel much more comfortable. It's a win win win for everyone.

NW is a joke for what they are doing
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AJV
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Re: North Wright Air

Post by AJV »

flyinhigh wrote:Our company scale was ok when I started, in the last 4 months we have implemented a pay scale that will potentially pay a King Air captain 90K, plus full health benefits and a pension plan.
Ours get 80G which is nice but I would love to see 90 for our King Air Captains too! What type of flying are you doing?
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shimmydampner
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Re: North Wright Air

Post by shimmydampner »

The way to solve turn over is pay a respectable wage, PERIOD.
Everyone likes to say this, but it's not really true. It's a terribly over-simplified way of looking at it.
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shimmydampner
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Re: North Wright Air

Post by shimmydampner »

Our company scale was ok when I started, in the last 4 months we have implemented a pay scale that will potentially pay a King Air captain 90K, plus full health benefits and a pension plan
That's great, but how many pilots actually make that? Or is it just a management smoke and mirrors way of dangling an unreachable carrot? I tend to be wary when someone tells me what I could "potentially" earn. I mean, I could potentially win the lottery too, but just like "potential pay" I can't take that to the bank.
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gocanadago
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Re: North Wright Air

Post by gocanadago »

1 year bond at 18 000$ for a twotter on top of the training fee is beyond ridiculous and working for an owner that will call you "cockeyed cock suckers" when he has a fit. Stay as far away as possible.
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Brown Bear
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Re: North Wright Air

Post by Brown Bear »

"And still, pilots line up to fly for operators like these scum bags...."
Have some pride people.
Avoid like the plague.
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flyinhigh
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Re: North Wright Air

Post by flyinhigh »

Right now 3 make that.

To make that it depends how motivated you are, The salary stops at 75 K, however on top of the salary you make mileage bringing it up.
Hence why I say potentially, if you rather turn down trips and not fly you won't make that. You wanna work while your at work you will.
This is doing medivac's.
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Brown Bear
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Re: North Wright Air

Post by Brown Bear »

flyinhigh wrote:Right now 3 make that.

To make that it depends how motivated you are, The salary stops at 75 K, however on top of the salary you make mileage bringing it up.
Hence why I say potentially, if you rather turn down trips and not fly you won't make that. You wanna work while your at work you will.
This is doing medivac's.
Do you get paid for miles flown if you miss?
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AJV
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Re: North Wright Air

Post by AJV »

flyinhigh wrote:Right now 3 make that.

To make that it depends how motivated you are, The salary stops at 75 K, however on top of the salary you make mileage bringing it up.
Hence why I say potentially, if you rather turn down trips and not fly you won't make that. You wanna work while your at work you will.
This is doing medivac's.
How can you turn down trips unless it is weather or runway conditions on a medi? You can't just say well I don't feel like it...
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esp803

Re: North Wright Air

Post by esp803 »

Every place I have ever worked on a millage basis, I have been paid for miles flown, regardless of the outcome of the flight. If my air time multiplied by my block airspeed is substantially larger than then actual millage, I bill that. I would never accept a position that doesn't pay if you miss... nothing good can come from that system.

E
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flyinhigh
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Re: North Wright Air

Post by flyinhigh »

Well that is essentially it, you don't turn down flights in medivacs you delay them until you loose them.
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Brown Bear
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Re: North Wright Air

Post by Brown Bear »

flyinhigh wrote:Well that is essentially it, you don't turn down flights in medivacs you delay them until you loose them.
This is worth reading. Again. The biggest killer in medevac flying is the "If we don't go, we'll loose the trip...." It results in pushing weather. Yes it does. I've been doing this for a very LONG time, and paying mileage has been responsible for many accidents. The difference between 70K and 80K after tax, is 24 beers every week. THINKABOUTIT
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BTW. It's spelt MED E VAC. not. MED I VAC. Word source. (med)ical (evac)uation. Just so ya know.
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leftoftrack
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Re: North Wright Air

Post by leftoftrack »

Or (medi)cal e(vac)auation.

Now where is my bear gun.

As for the owner calling you a name when he's mad, you can always stay home with you mom and dad. They won't call you mean names when you do stupid shit.
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Brown Bear
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Re: North Wright Air

Post by Brown Bear »

leftoftrack wrote:
As for the owner calling you a name when he's mad, you can always stay home with you mom and dad. They won't call you mean names when you do stupid shit.
Or, since you seem to think that verbal abuse is a) mature and professional, and b) socially acceptable, you could go to work for these maggots?
You know, in "professions", name calling (especially names like the one in question) would be totally unacceptable, and indeed just would NOT occur! Just one more reason I laugh to myself when pilots trip over themselves claiming to be PROFESSIONAL! Indeed a joke!
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FICU
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Re: North Wright Air

Post by FICU »

leftoftrack wrote:Or (medi)cal e(vac)auation.
Now you're abbreviating "medical vacuum" ;)
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leftoftrack
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Re: North Wright Air

Post by leftoftrack »

FICU your funny- it could be an abreviation for "medical vacation", and we all know that happens a whole lot more than a medical evacuation.

Back to north wright. Is Warren messed in the head. He's been in the wells since the seventies something is going to be off from what you and I understand to be normal, but if you think being called a name or two is the worst thing that will happen to you in aviation than don't take a job doing booze cruises from almost day 1. Instead do the perimeter thing. Load bags for 2 years than spend the next 4 trying not to die on a Indian reserve in a plane nicknamed the turbo dildo. I heard they do actually stick that on your tombstone.

As far as the cash goes, housing, heating, electricity, phone are all covered. There are 5 blocks in town so walking is a reasonable expectation and the ATCO castle is across the street from work. So starting out you need to walk 100' to get to work. Booze is cheap and the company does runs to yellow knife 5 times a week so your paying reasonable prices for food, you have no bills other than your student loans and you'll make friends for life. And if you really hate it. Get on canadian north 6 days a week for $50 and head home.
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