Single Pilot IFR Advice- Discussion

[desksgo]

I didn't want to hijack the great things posted in the original thread, so I thought I would start a new thread for discussion.

Does anyone feel that this individual's operator may be really selling safety short by not having an experienced indvidual fly alongside this SPIFR newcomer for, say, 25 hrs as kind of a probationary period?

I'm not looking to question the original poster's aviating capabilities, but more generate discussion regarding operators' overall committment to safety. It seems that insurance companies have been tackling this issue for us in the past by demanding very high times for single pilot IFR positions. But now as the industry rides its temporary wave of prosperity, these higher time individuals are harder to come by. Should the onus not fall on the operators now to make sure that their people are 100% confident with the positions they are in or provide a guiding hand to get them there?

Or would you rather have a family member on an aircraft as a passenger while their pilot learns to test his/her personal minimums? Or should we just continue to train to transport specs and forget about proficient/confident operation of the aircraft? (This is horseshit, and I want to bust some balls)
Again, this has nothing to do with questioning of the original poster's qualifications, but more in the support he may or may not receive from his organization.

[ZBB118.10]

Having a more experienced guy ride along for the first 20-25hrs of flight in this kind of operation should be something that is not optional but mandatory. This is by no means a slur on the guy who just gets the upgrade to an SPIFR position. On the contrary, it shows that the operator has respect and a genuine interest in making the SPIFR guy feel comfortable in his new environment. It also shows the operator has a significant concern towards safety.

Of course training (done correctly = safer operation) costs money so we end up with the potentially fatal error of merely meeting TC requirements and just throwing a guy in the aircraft and off he goes....

Deja vu anyone?

[groundtoflightdeck]

There is likely some kind of line indoc, but if you're lucky the first couple trips are VFR anyways. Single Pilot IFR isn't really as bad as some guys think, it's way easier than having a bad FO Just like any IFR trip, stay ahead of the airplane and it will be easy.

[desksgo]

I just don't see how I can write that in an ops manual and expect it to keep people from developing smoking holes in mother earth.

Same mistakes over and over and over. But hey, they'll figure it out at some point, right?

[goldeneagle]

I didn't want to hijack the great things posted in the original thread, so I thought I would start a new thread for discussion.

Does anyone feel that this individual's operator may be really selling safety short by not having an experienced indvidual fly alongside this SPIFR newcomer for, say, 25 hrs as kind of a probationary period?

Well, actually, if you go read the regs on the subject, it's written into the rules, and, a company operations manual will NEVER get approved if it allows somebody with zero experience on type to blast off single pilot ifr. I dont remember the exact numbers of the top of my head (and i'm not going to go dig it up at this time of nite), but, my company operations manual requires (if i remember the number correctly) 50 hours on type before you can be released single pilot. I do remember trying to sneak that number down to 25 during a revision once, and, it got bounced. Then stack onto that the requirements of the insurance company, and they often get even stickier, depending on your policy terms.

So the reality of the situation is this, sending new folks off into single pilot ifr situations is a myth, and one that the folks here on AvCanada would love to propogate. In actual practise, TC has long ago clamped down on the practise thru control of the approved company operations manuals. So it boils down to a simple fact, making more rules wont help, because anybody blasting off single pilot with less than the required time on type today is already breaking the rules, and one more rule isn't going to change the way they do business.

[desksgo]

Ah, so there are rules for it. I feel much safer now.

[avi8tr]

SPIFR is stupid and crazy. Its a big strain on a person especially on long flights in total IMC

[Go Guns]

Ah ha, the CAR's, is there anything they don't know.... Well, probably, but they've got the answer for this one.

723.86 Minimum Crew

Single Pilot IFR Requirements

The standard for the operation of an aeroplane with passengers on board in IFR flight without a second-in-command is:

(1) the pilot shall have a minimum of 1000 hours of flight time which shall include, if the type to be flown is multi-engined, 100 hours on multi-engined aeroplanes. In addition, the pilot shall have 50 hours of simulated or actual flight in IMC, and a total of 50 hours flight time on the aeroplane type;

(2) the Pilot Proficiency Check shall be in the aeroplane type flown or if applicable in one of the types grouped for Pilot Proficiency Check renewals and shall include the following:

(a) knowledge of the auto-pilot operations and limitations;

(b) performance of normal and emergency procedures without assistance;

(c) passenger briefing with respect to emergency evacuation; and

(d) demonstration of the use of the auto-pilot during appropriate phases of flight;

(3) flight in pressurized aeroplanes shall be conducted at or below FL 250; and

(4) a pilot's single pilot proficiency, if still valid, is transferable between air operators which have an Air Operator Certificate authority to conduct such operations and utilize the same type and model of aeroplane.

[groundtoflightdeck]

SPIFR is stupid and crazy. Its a big strain on a person especially on long flights in total IMC

Have you ever done it? Most that do find it perfectly safe.

[Water off]

The 50 hour requirement is only for revenue passenger flights. If you are flying cargo or just flying company personel around non-rev, you can do it single pilot.

[sky's the limit]

SPIFR is stupid and crazy. Its a big strain on a person especially on long flights in total IMC

I would have to whole heartly disagree with you. SPIFR can be safe, and in fact has been proven to be safe. I've had more trouble in two-crew environments than when flying SPIFR. 5.5hr legs over water in the tropics in the rainy season is not that much fun with one or two crew... and we don't have that problem here...

Most airplanes are designed for one pilot, with the Metro being the notable exception from what I inderstand. Ho's, 400 series Cessna's, Vans, and King Airs are all easily managable by a well trained pilot.

As long as the pilots flying them are trained properly and not flying outside the rules, you'll be just fine. IFR is easy in and of itself, all the decsions are made for you, you're in protected airspace, and you have "outs."

STL

[Miss Mae]

Single pilot IFR can be safe if the company provides the right kind of prep for the pilots prior to their first single pilot IFR expierence.

I flew single pilot IFR in a piston twin..and went through 50 hours sitting right seat prior to my PPC. After the PPC I had to do the required 15 hours of line indoc where of course I was PIC, unfourtuantley throughout most of those hours we were blessed with perfect VFR and the days where it was worse it was 1000 feet and 3 miles.

I think the training needs to be more specific, I think it would be beneficial if each pilot had to do a minimum of something like 15 hours IMC prior to being out on their own. That's just my 2 cents.

[Cat Driver]

Now that aviation has progressed to the point that single pilot IFR is so safe when are we going to get single pilot IFR in the major airlines?

Cat

[sportingrifle]

Any decision in aviation invloves risk management-looking the probability of something going wrong and the conseuences of it actually going wrong. Keep this in mind as we look at the history of SEIFR.

When Single Pilot IFR was first proposed, the drive was to make airplanes very easy to physically fly and equip them with reasonably good autopilots to relieve pilot workload. One of the first aircraft to capture this concept was the old Cessna Citation II. As airspace got more complex and aircraft performance increased, the next evoloution of this concept was more advanced flight management systems and simplified cockpits-ie glass. This is where the advanced single seat certified jets are headed.

Unfortunately, most people don't understand how error prone we as pilots are. NASA did a study in simulators and found that flight crews make an average of 16 errors per hour! Luckily most are minor and of little risk and the big ones are caught by the use of SOP's, cross checking, and checklists. "Trapping errors" and "error management" are cornerstones of effective CRM. (Interestingly enough, CRM was invented in the days of the early jets. They kept crashing due to pilot error even though there were 3 crewmembers. Problem was it was often 6 hands, 6 feet, 6 eyes, and 1 domineering autocratic brain!)

The problem with single pilot IFR airplanes is that they all cater to the crew having only one pair of hands, feet, and eyes. The big risk in single pilot IFR is that there is only 1 BRAIN. If that brain is stressed, tired, or just having a bad day and mis-sets the altitude selector to below the height of a mountain-game over. No cross check from the other crewmember to catch the error. Fancy glass FMS commands double redundant 3 axis autopilot to fly airplane into a mountain.

Given that the A-320 is a really undemanding airplane to physically fly, (it is always in trim, very stable , and has autothrottles, has a nice clean glass cockpit, automated fault warning and checklists, very sophisticated flight management system and autopilot) it is a natural for single pilot certification. Why aren't the airlines flying around with just one pilot? Because they know all this and know they can't afford to kill 160 people at a time. Unfortunately, at the smaller end of the scale, killing a half dozen people at a time doesn't make world news and becomes the insurance company's problem. The day to day financial benefits outweigh the occasional costs. Old Navair actually had this figured out. They got the safety benefit of the second crew member who cost less than the cost of maintaining an autopilot, and loaded the freight to boot!

Unfortunately, the powers that be have approved both single pilot IFR and single engine IFR. For those of you whose jobs involve this type of work, be VERY aware of the risks and your own mental state at work. You can't afford a to have a "bad" day like those of us in crewed aircraft can.

[Cat Driver]

Exellent post sportingrifle...

[Doc]

Single pilot IFR....you wimps! Lets bring back three person crews on the airlines. Better yet, lets do the military way, a mission commander, aircraft commander, navigator, political officer, docking officer (floats only), I mean, why be alone in the vastness of the sky?
Afterall, one man can not be expected to fly a big heavy airplane like a 'ho around the sky all by his lonesome!

[goldeneagle]

Single pilot IFR....you wimps! Lets bring back three person crews on the airlines. Better yet, lets do the military way, a mission commander, aircraft commander, navigator, political officer, docking officer (floats only), I mean, why be alone in the vastness of the sky?
Afterall, one man can not be expected to fly a big heavy airplane like a 'ho around the sky all by his lonesome!

As the pilot, I'll sit in the front left seat, and the seat beside me will be occupied by the first officer. We have club seating behind me, so in the club we'll put the aircraft commander, the navigator, and the mission commander. It's a domestic flight, no need for a political officer, we are on wheels, no need for a docking officer. We are going to go to the extent of the aircrafts range, so we'll fill the tanks.

I only have one question. Where can I put passengers? My aircraft with full fuel and all that crew is loaded to max takeoff weight.

[desksgo]

Put one in the pilot seat because it, apparently, sits empty.

[Dust Devil]

I only have one question. Where can I put passengers? My aircraft with full fuel and all that crew is loaded to max takeoff weight.

You must fly a cessna twin

[goldeneagle]

I only have one question. Where can I put passengers? My aircraft with full fuel and all that crew is loaded to max takeoff weight.

You must fly a cessna twin

Geee, how did you guess. Is it possible that the moniker here is just a little bit of a dead giveaway....

[BushXed]

Hi,

I will get minimum 50 hours line in-doc. Hopefully there is alot of sh@t weather for a majority of those hours as I think the req is just for 50 hours on type, not necessarily 50 hours ifr.

[GYQA]

The 50 hour requirement is only for revenue passenger flights. If you are flying cargo or just flying company personel around non-rev, you can do it single pilot.

Can you show me in the cars if the autopilot is still required if it is cargo only?

[GYQA]

The 50 hour requirement is only for revenue passenger flights. If you are flying cargo or just flying company personel around non-rev, you can do it single pilot.

Can you show me in the cars if the autopilot is still required if it is cargo only?

SINGLE PILOT IFR REQUIREMENTS

The standard for the operation of an aeroplane with passengers on board in IFR flight without a second-in-command is;

a. the pilot will have a minimum of 1000 hours of flight time, which will include, if the type to be flown is multi-engine, 100 hours on multi-engine aeroplanes,

b. the pilot will have 50 hours of simulated or actual flight in IMC, and a total of 50 hours flight time on the aeroplane type.

The PPC will be in the aeroplane type flown or if applicable in one of the types grouped for PPC renewals and will include the following;

a. knowledge of the auto-pilot operations and limitations,

b. performance of normal and emergency procedures without assistance,

c. passenger briefing with respect to emergency evacuation, and

d. demonstration of the use of the auto-pilot during appropriate phases of flight.

[esp803]

GYQA,

Did you just bring up a 8 year old thread to answer your own question?

[willow burner]

Answering your own questions is an important part of SPIFR....