Am I on the right path?

Lucas7 · Post by **Lucas7** » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:06 am

Alright. Here goes. I have searched this forum quite a bit recently because these questions have been coming into my mind alot lately..

I am currently a full time student at university doing a degree in Finance. I am half way through year one and I just turned 18 years old. My career goal is to become a commercial pilot. After looking around the forums awhile back I figured I would do my 4-5 year degree while saving enough money for all my licences/ratings etc. Then get everything, look for a ramp job and pray I would be in the cockpit after a year or so.

The Air Force has never really been an option in my mind up until recently just because I am randomly having second thoughts about which path to take. I was informed that to be accepted into the Air Force I would need a minimum of a 90+ average. My average was 80+ and I did take physics. I was also told that if I wanted to do something flying wise I would need an engineering degree or science if I took the military route.

The thing that turns me off about the Air Force which I am not 100% sure is true, is that, 1. I may not end up being a pilot therefore wasting my time. 2. I may end up a pilot of other things, like a Helicopter. 3. Im stuck in a contract for 7 years even if they dont allow me to be a pilot?

So. Just want some honest opinions on what I should do... Continue what I started... or switch to the military because it's still early enough?

Thanks a lot!

ThatArmyGuy · Post by **ThatArmyGuy** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:43 pm

90% of people who wash out will wash out at PFT (Primary Flight Training) in Phase 2. Remember that before that you'll need to complete Phase 1 which is a common military boot camp as well.

Only once you earn your wings (at the end of your training) does your 7 year begin. Otherwise, all of the time you spend sitting on OJT and going to the gym while you wait for your PFT and BFT would count as payback time. In other words, expect to be in the training system for 1-2.5 years and then tag the 7 on afterwards.

I'll close with this - having served in the Army for 9 years, my question to you is are you just there to get free flight training or a career to serve your country? Think about it, because it means something to some of us.

trampbike · Post by **trampbike** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:06 pm

Lucas7 wrote: I was informed that to be accepted into the Air Force I would need a minimum of a 90+ average.

Lucas7 wrote:I was also told that if I wanted to do something flying wise I would need an engineering degree or science if I took the military route.

Your school average is only one part of the equation as far as your application goes. 90+ average are not essential at all.
You can study pretty much anything you want, heck for ROTP they might even let you finish that degree at your current school and pay you to do it.

Lucas7 wrote:1. I may not end up being a pilot therefore wasting my time. 2. I may end up a pilot of other things, like a Helicopter. 3. Im stuck in a contract for 7 years even if they dont allow me to be a pilot?

1. If you don't fail, you will end up being a pilot.
2. Good for you, helicopter pilot in the RCAF can be an awesome job. When I got into aviation the only thing I wanted to be was a fighter pilot. Now I want to end up flying helicopters or SAR in the mountains... Don't limit yourself already as to what you want to fly. You don't know what you don't know yet.
3. If you are stuck for 7 years, it's because you earned your Wings, therefore you are a RCAF pilot.

Lucas7 wrote:So. Just want some honest opinions on what I should do... Continue what I started... or switch to the military because it's still early enough?

What you should do is get some real information. There are tons of relevant thread on this forum and on army.ca. Also, forces.ca might a good website to start with. Pilot is in huge demand right now, it has not always been like that, you are lucky.

Lucas7 · Post by **Lucas7** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:18 pm

Armyguy: Before the military option just seemed like a path to get my pilots license and that I would just move on and become a commercial pilot. Even though I would love to be a commercial pilot, the thing I want to do more is fly. The Air Force seems like an amazing opportunity to serve my country and learn countless new things. If I did end up going with that route I can definitely see myself staying with the RCAF for long term.

Trampbike: I'm a little confused about the actual timeline of things. If I were to apply to the RCAF would I be doing the "tests?" Where I live or would I be shipped out somewhere?

Since I want to be a pilot, a degree is needed.. But. Since I am already working on a degree (1st year) would I basically just throw this year away in terms of academic credits? I wouldn't mind going to Quebec to the Royal Military College and doing an engineering degree. I'm willing to do whatever it takes and work as hard as I need to In order to become a pilot.

So basically. What I am confused about is... How does it work... If I was successful in the written tests would I go to Quebec for September for the normal school year and then start first phase next summer? That's one thing that has me thinking... If I go to school with them most likely paying for a year and for some reason by the time training season comes around they don't need pilots or I don't make it... Am I still going to have to serve because I did go through their university?

I went on the forces forums but I didn't find too much relevant information. The forums (especially RCAF on forces) seems slightly outdated and not that populated.

I'm planning on calling a recruitment centre in my city (YWG). Just going to have to figure out which to go to... Air Force or General recruiting...

Thanks for all the help to anyone who posts. I know I'm not that knowledgable wen it comes to anything to do with the military but I hope for that to change soon.

trey kule · Post by **trey kule** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:30 pm

RMC is in Quebec now?

Adam Oke · Post by **Adam Oke** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:58 pm

trey kule wrote:RMC is in Quebec now?

The quick and dirty answer is that there is RMC Saint-Jean, which can be looked at as "prep" school for University. Those who do not quite meet the academic requirements, among other things, typically will see their first year at St-Jean before they head to RMC Kingston.

trampbike · Post by **trampbike** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:40 am

I do not really understand most of your post. It looks like you want to be spoon-fed with the exact information that you need instead of actually using the ressources available to you. Not really what the CF wants when they try to recruit potential officers.

Lucas7 wrote: I went on the forces forums but I didn't find too much relevant information. The forums (especially RCAF on forces) seems slightly outdated and not that populated.

So you went to army.ca and were not able to find relevant and recent information about the RCAF, the recruiting process, the entry options, the training, etc.?

Lucas7 · Post by **Lucas7** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:05 pm

Sorry if I seem like I am trying to be spoon fed. I just know a lot of the posts about my questions can be fairly dated so the reason I ask is just to confirm if everything is still the same and I feel like getting direct answers from people can be somewhat more helpful/reliable.

A lot of the threads you linked I had already viewed but this one:
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=80441

Was pretty much what I Was looking for in terms of a timeline for the start.

I thought going to the recruitment centre and asking questions was something that needed to be done. But, after looking at a couple of your posts it seems like they know next to nothing.

So, in essence nothing has changed drastically when it comes to the selection process, training, etc? I was just leaning towards newer information because I wasn't sure how up to date a lot of the information was.

trampbike · Post by **trampbike** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:24 pm

Lucas7 wrote:I thought going to the recruitment centre and asking questions was something that needed to be done. But, after looking at a couple of your posts it seems like they know next to nothing.

They are the ones who know which entry programs are opened and what paperwork you need to fill. If you want to know more about the selection process, the training and the lifestyle of a RCAF pilot, then start reading.

Seriously, do your homework.
I'm done.

Outlaw58 · Post by **Outlaw58** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:53 pm

Lucas,

As Trampbike stated, the recruiting office is your first step. They are the best folks to talk to about choosing the right Enrolment plan. In your case there would be 3 choices:

1a) ROTP (Military College): If accepted, you would attend RMC Kingston to obtain one of the degrees offered there. No degree offered there will prevent you from becoming a pilot.

1b) ROTP (Civil University): If accepted, the military would cover your expenses for studying at your chosen university and in your chosen program. You would be required to attend military training during some weekends and the summer. In this case, the program chosen will affect your chances of being accepted (some programs are viewed as more desirable than others)

In both 1a and 1b, your pilto training starts after you have completed your degree. Some short phases of training such as Basic training, survival, aeromedical, etc... may be completed during your studies but the meat of your pilot training, Phase II and beyond, will take place after.

2) CEOTP: If accepted, you will start training in your Military occupation right away (in this case, pilot). You will be required to complete a degree within 9 years of enrolment. You will be afforded some time, and depending on the program some money to complete it but for the most part, it is your responsability to fulfill your part of the contract.

Any questions beyond what I wrote there will need to be asked to a recruiter, but that should give you an idea. Beyond that point that's where you may feel that the recruiting center might not provide you with the answers you are looking for. I will try to shed some light for you:

For the pilot training (other than connex courses) this is the normal path:

Phase I: Primary Flying Training - Grob 120A - 3 CFFTS, Southport, Manitoba (about 25-30 flying hours)
Phase II: Basic Flying Training - CT-156 Harvard II - 2 CFFTS, Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan (about 100-120 hours)
At this point you are selected for 1 of the 3 streams (Fighters / Multi-Engine / Helicopters) and the training becomes specialized.

Helicopter and Multi-engine:
Phase III: Helicopter Flying Training - B206/B412CF - 3 CFFTS, Southport, Manitoba (about 120 hours)
Phase III: Multi-Engine Flying Training - King-Air C90B - 3 CFFTS, Southport, Manitoba (about 90 hours)
At the completion of which you earn your CF Military Pilot Wings

Fighters (not an expert here...):
Phase IIB: Advance Flying Training - CT-156 Harvard II - 2 CFFTS, Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan
Phase III: Fighter lead-in training - CT-155 Hawk - 2 CFFTS, Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan
After which you get your wings.
You can then become an instructor or continue training:
Phase IV: Basic Fighter Course - CT-155 Hawk - 419 Sqn, 4 wing Cold Lake, Alberta
Fighter Pilot Course: CF-188 Hornet - 410 Sqn, 4 Wing Cold Lake, Alberta

Points to remember:
- Every phase of training is a selection up to the point you get your wings. You have to perform to a certain standard or you will not make it, so going the military route is not a slippery slope it is much harder to get on and stay on it then to get off it (willingly or not).

- you only "owe" years of service depending on the contract and/or training completed. Your initial contract should be for only 5 years (check with recruiting center, I am not an expert there), which is to say that even if you complete your degree and you are not succesful in pilot training, you should only have very little (if any) time left to serve.

- no one will force you to pick up a military occupation you do not want. If you are not accepted or are unsuccessful in pilot training, your options will be discussed with you and releasing is always an option (as stated, you may have to serve a little time to complete your initial contract but in the case of pilots, most if not all have completed their obligatory service well before they get to that point)

- Once you get your wings you will have a period of obligatory service of 7 years starting the day you get your wings. If you count around 3 to 4 years per posting, including the operational training time, after your 2nd posting, you will no longer be contractually obliged to serve, though most of us do continue in order to gain the benifits associated with contract completion (Pension is a big one)

- regardless of which stream you go, the type of flying you will do has no civilian equivalent. That being said, there are certain aspect of military life that is not for everyone. Most of the time, it is very much like your normal civilian pilot job, but every once in a while, you will watch the news to hear about some catastrophe and/or conflict going on on the other side of the planet; your first thought will be: Damn I'm glad I'm not there and your second thought will be: Geeweez, I wonder when we leave (for that place)!

Life after the military:
The experience you will have gained is recognized and in most cases valued in the civilian industry
By the time you finish your contract, you will have gained the experience to obtain an ATPL (Helo or airplane as applicable). You will also have accumulated around 250 to 400 hours of flying per year spent in a flying position.

I hope I have clarified some of your questions.

JP

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