All religion is evil.
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desksgo
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Re: All religion is evil.
After 6 posts? Back in line, maggot.Ender wrote:Any takers?
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Driving Rain
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Re: All religion is evil.
Who could argue with that?Ender wrote:Any takers?
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punk
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Nightshiftzombie
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Dunno about evil, but it's important to remember that religion is a vice (like alcohol or recreational pharmeceuticals), not a virtue.
Like any other vice, if taken in small doses, religion probably isn't that harmful. But taken in large doses, it mayl cause you to want to crash a boeing into a building (arab style) or perhaps acquire a hunting rifle and shoot a doctor or two (nutty religious right).
It's also important to remember that evil is a relative term. The very same act can be construed as good or evil, depending upon the circumstances. Let's say you just wake up one morning and kill a person you don't know, walking the other way on the street. Sounds pretty evil, doesn't it? Surely you will be arrested, go to jail, get a 300 lb wifebeater for a cellmate, and be vilified in the press like Karla as "not a nice person".
But let's say you're told to kill that very same stranger by our honorable elected politicians, because your friend and neighbors thought you'd look good in green, even if you didn't. Then, by gosh, you're a hero for killing that stranger. You might even get a medal and get to screw all the adoring teenage girls in your neighborhood when you get home.
You tell me - good or evil?
Like any other vice, if taken in small doses, religion probably isn't that harmful. But taken in large doses, it mayl cause you to want to crash a boeing into a building (arab style) or perhaps acquire a hunting rifle and shoot a doctor or two (nutty religious right).
It's also important to remember that evil is a relative term. The very same act can be construed as good or evil, depending upon the circumstances. Let's say you just wake up one morning and kill a person you don't know, walking the other way on the street. Sounds pretty evil, doesn't it? Surely you will be arrested, go to jail, get a 300 lb wifebeater for a cellmate, and be vilified in the press like Karla as "not a nice person".
But let's say you're told to kill that very same stranger by our honorable elected politicians, because your friend and neighbors thought you'd look good in green, even if you didn't. Then, by gosh, you're a hero for killing that stranger. You might even get a medal and get to screw all the adoring teenage girls in your neighborhood when you get home.
You tell me - good or evil?
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TopperHarley
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Religion itself is not what is evil- the evilness comes from the zealots and fundamentalists/extremists who take it too far. Don't think that for 1 second the true God would approve any of that crap that is going on around the world, where people are killing in "the name of God."
If you want a true spokesperson for religion, look at people like Jesus, Mother Theresa or Ghandi. Although they took their faith very seriously, thery never became overzealous about it.
And no, religion is no fairy-tail
If you want a true spokesperson for religion, look at people like Jesus, Mother Theresa or Ghandi. Although they took their faith very seriously, thery never became overzealous about it.
And no, religion is no fairy-tail
"Never travel faster than your guardian angel can fly." - Mother Theresa
I gotta ask, who is this True God and how do you know what he thinks? Does he talk to you? Do you hear voices? If so, have you mentioned this when you do your pilot medical?
If you're a bible thumper, and you think the One True God (who of course is your personal god) is a "nice guy", I must ask, have you read the Old Testament much recently?
Religion is rather amusingly based on circular logic. You believe because you have faith, and you have faith because you believe.
Don't get me wrong, I think organized religion is a wonderful racket, er, business to get into. The tax advantages are incredible
If you're a bible thumper, and you think the One True God (who of course is your personal god) is a "nice guy", I must ask, have you read the Old Testament much recently?
Religion is rather amusingly based on circular logic. You believe because you have faith, and you have faith because you believe.
Don't get me wrong, I think organized religion is a wonderful racket, er, business to get into. The tax advantages are incredible
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rotorhead350
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TopperHarley
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First off, I am not a "Bible thumper," although I really do not know what makes a person one. I have read the Bible cover-to-cover and have read some of the books 2-3 times, so I am familiar with most of the teachings and events (although I have not had any formal training, so I can't call myself an expert).
To me, the "True God" is the one who is portrayed in the Bible. The reason I believe this is obviously because I am Christian. Had I been born in an Arab country, the true God for me would then be Allah. Had I been born somewhere near China, then I would likely be worshipping Buddha. I do not consider those other religions "false" nor do I ever try to come down on anyone who is not of the same faith. I have several friends who are muslim, jewish, and atheist, and I can accept that.
No one really knows exactly what God thinks, but I do truly believe that He has spoken to people. I do believe in prophets and saints and I am not at all ashamed to say that. One person whom I think was great was Mother Theresa. She claimed that she had a personal relationship with God, as have many other modern-day saints. Can anyone really verify this? Nope. But I still choose to believe her based on the change that she experienced in her life. Before she went to nun-school, she was not at all religious. Something made her change big-time and I think that change came from God. Not only did she put aside her life to become a nun, but she literally gave up her life to serve other people. The same goes for every other modern-day saint out there, including Ghandi (a non-Chrisitan). You can also research into the story of "Fatima" if you want, where Mary appeared to 3 children. Every single one of these saints has something in common- before their "conversion," most saints were not "good" people. In fact, the one saint who probably had the worst reputation of all was saint Paul (he advocated killing many christians, including Jesus). Once these saints claimed God had revealed Himself to them, they all experienced a huge change in their lifestyle and every single one of them gave up their life to serve other people.
And yes, I have read the Old Testament. I can see why you see trouble with it. At the same time, however, you must also look at the New Testament and not take any book out of context. I agree with you that the God portrayed in the OT is very harsh with the people, and I question part of it myself; however, keep in mind that we do not have all the information. For example, there is justification for a "just war" (example: WW2 or the war against the Taliban). Similarly, the cases in the OT where God told the Jews to go to war were possibly similar to the cases we have experienced in our life-time.
To me, the "True God" is the one who is portrayed in the Bible. The reason I believe this is obviously because I am Christian. Had I been born in an Arab country, the true God for me would then be Allah. Had I been born somewhere near China, then I would likely be worshipping Buddha. I do not consider those other religions "false" nor do I ever try to come down on anyone who is not of the same faith. I have several friends who are muslim, jewish, and atheist, and I can accept that.
No one really knows exactly what God thinks, but I do truly believe that He has spoken to people. I do believe in prophets and saints and I am not at all ashamed to say that. One person whom I think was great was Mother Theresa. She claimed that she had a personal relationship with God, as have many other modern-day saints. Can anyone really verify this? Nope. But I still choose to believe her based on the change that she experienced in her life. Before she went to nun-school, she was not at all religious. Something made her change big-time and I think that change came from God. Not only did she put aside her life to become a nun, but she literally gave up her life to serve other people. The same goes for every other modern-day saint out there, including Ghandi (a non-Chrisitan). You can also research into the story of "Fatima" if you want, where Mary appeared to 3 children. Every single one of these saints has something in common- before their "conversion," most saints were not "good" people. In fact, the one saint who probably had the worst reputation of all was saint Paul (he advocated killing many christians, including Jesus). Once these saints claimed God had revealed Himself to them, they all experienced a huge change in their lifestyle and every single one of them gave up their life to serve other people.
And yes, I have read the Old Testament. I can see why you see trouble with it. At the same time, however, you must also look at the New Testament and not take any book out of context. I agree with you that the God portrayed in the OT is very harsh with the people, and I question part of it myself; however, keep in mind that we do not have all the information. For example, there is justification for a "just war" (example: WW2 or the war against the Taliban). Similarly, the cases in the OT where God told the Jews to go to war were possibly similar to the cases we have experienced in our life-time.
"Never travel faster than your guardian angel can fly." - Mother Theresa
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Rubberbiscuit
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[quote="C-HRIS"]
No one really knows exactly what God thinks, but I do truly believe that He has spoken to people. :
I believe you are correct in this statement. That, in a nut shell, is what I believe is at the core of humanities problems in regards to relating to God. God says numerous times, your thoughts are not mine and that my thoughts are higher than yours, refering to humans. A great number of people who accept there is God (non-Christian or otherwise) keep on trying to put him on human terms, that is an impossibility. No one knows the mind of God. For instance, many people who say they are Christians cannot grasp what the trinity is, that does not mean that it does not exist, they accept it as an issue of faith. Atheists will say that we evolved from a single cell organism, that too is an issue of faith. It has never been proven, much less so in the context of the Bible, where certain events and predictions can be proved. Whatever, the issue of religion is beyond thorny and there are two sides which are unlikely to ever reconcile.
PS rotorhead350: JW's&Mormons, scientologists and various other cults fall in the category of "Bible Thumpers" , (They attempt to force their religion and literature down your throat, especially if you are young or appear impressionable) the majority of Christians are not and have unfortunately been slagged with the same brush.
No one really knows exactly what God thinks, but I do truly believe that He has spoken to people. :
I believe you are correct in this statement. That, in a nut shell, is what I believe is at the core of humanities problems in regards to relating to God. God says numerous times, your thoughts are not mine and that my thoughts are higher than yours, refering to humans. A great number of people who accept there is God (non-Christian or otherwise) keep on trying to put him on human terms, that is an impossibility. No one knows the mind of God. For instance, many people who say they are Christians cannot grasp what the trinity is, that does not mean that it does not exist, they accept it as an issue of faith. Atheists will say that we evolved from a single cell organism, that too is an issue of faith. It has never been proven, much less so in the context of the Bible, where certain events and predictions can be proved. Whatever, the issue of religion is beyond thorny and there are two sides which are unlikely to ever reconcile.
PS rotorhead350: JW's&Mormons, scientologists and various other cults fall in the category of "Bible Thumpers" , (They attempt to force their religion and literature down your throat, especially if you are young or appear impressionable) the majority of Christians are not and have unfortunately been slagged with the same brush.
I'm givin er all she's got..
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rotorhead350
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i know of a few people who claim to have spoken with god, and they are all certified loony.I had a friend who is deeply religious tell me that when i die I am going straight to hell because I don't believe. I told him if thats the case both he and god(if there is one) can both stick it up their assholes. I live my life the way I choose. I don't steal, i don't murder, i don't rape. I believe that when the time comes and i die, that if their is a so-called god he will take those things into consideration regardless of the fact i don't believe in him.............................
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TopperHarley
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rotorhead,
A lot of religious people like your friend (especially tv evangelicals, like Falwell) always love to try to speak for God. They think they have it all figured out and that they know exactly who goes to heaven/hell. These people tend to give Christians a bad name; however, don't let these people influence your beliefs in Christianity. If I was in your shoes, I too would tend to shy away from religion because I would not want to associate myself with those kinds of people. But as I said before, if you think you want to learn more about religion or if you want to gain some inspiration, try looking at other people like Mother Theresa. Or even better, try to read from the 4 gospels for yourself and see exactly what Jesus preached (as opposed to hearing it from other people who may be interpreting it differently).
A lot of religious people like your friend (especially tv evangelicals, like Falwell) always love to try to speak for God. They think they have it all figured out and that they know exactly who goes to heaven/hell. These people tend to give Christians a bad name; however, don't let these people influence your beliefs in Christianity. If I was in your shoes, I too would tend to shy away from religion because I would not want to associate myself with those kinds of people. But as I said before, if you think you want to learn more about religion or if you want to gain some inspiration, try looking at other people like Mother Theresa. Or even better, try to read from the 4 gospels for yourself and see exactly what Jesus preached (as opposed to hearing it from other people who may be interpreting it differently).
"Never travel faster than your guardian angel can fly." - Mother Theresa
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TopperHarley
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Swede,
I agree with you. Personally, I just think that there are some things we are not meant to know or understand. Furthermore, there are some things that we, as humans, simply cannot understand. If you can accept the fact that there is a God, then you must also accept the fact that He has tremendous powers (after all, He would be responsible for creating the universe and humans!). How could we as humans, with a finite capacity for knowledge, possibly comprehend the infinite knowledge that a God would posess? Even if God tried to "dumb things down" for us, we still would not be able to understand all the difficult questions, like "why do we have to suffer?" "What's the meaning of life?" "If you love us, why do you send people to hell?" etc etc.
As an analogy, imagine trying to explain the thoery of flight to different people. For instance, do you think a 5 year old child would possibly grasp the concepts from Bernoulli or Newton? Or better yet, do you think you could explain something to a different life-form (such as a dog), and expect them to be able to understand you? No matter how much you try to "dumb down" Newton or Bernoulli, it will be impossible for the 5 year old or the dog to understand the truth behind the theory of flight. That 5 year old kid has yet to gain the background knowledge from science that is required to understand the theory. If that 5 year old kid was to go through all the required schooling and take the necessary courses, then his knowledge base will increase and he will start to understand; however, there will still be things that are a mystery to him.
The same logic can be applied to God. Even if God explained how He created the universe or why He created us, do you think we could possibly understand it? I would highly doubt it.
Besides the fact that we simply cannot understand the truth behind faith, I also truly believe that God intended for us to be like that from the beginning (i.e. His plan was for us not to be able to understand everything). Now I know this sounds a little crazy or bizarre, but I believe this has everything to do with faith.
As another analogy, imagine yourself as a teacher (or better yet, imagine yourself as a flight instructor) who is about to administer an exam for all your students. Would it be fair for you to give a copy of the exam and all the answers beforehand to all the students? No. If you did this, then everyone would get the same mark (100%) and there would be no way for you, as the "master" of the classroom, to differentiate the good students from the bad ones. It would, therefore, be impossible for you to develop a reward system for your students. It is best then to give your students an idea of what they can expect to be on the exam, and let them study the material for themselves. Those who work hard and take the time to study the material will do well, while the lazy students will fail and be left to suffer the consequences.
Again, I think the same logic applies to us. If God were to make Himself known to everyone right now then there would be no need for faith, since everyone would obviously believe in Him. God would have no way then to differentiate the faithful from the unfaithful. There would be no doubts as to His existence and there would be no way for God to find out our true character. By revealing Himself to those who open their hearts to him, God can develop a better relationship with those people who want to be close to Him.
And that is the beauty of free-will. God gave us free-will as a gift essentially; the problem is that it is so easy for us to take advantage of it. We are free to live a life of sin and we are free to choose to believe in Him or not. If we did not have free-will, then we would all be puppets, and that would be senseless. But because we have free-will, we must accept the fact that there are consequences to our actions. If we choose to murder or rape someone (or commit any other sin for that matter), then there will be a consequence to this. As a Christian, I believe that the consequences we pay will occur in this lifetime, and in the next one (i.e. after we die).
I agree with you. Personally, I just think that there are some things we are not meant to know or understand. Furthermore, there are some things that we, as humans, simply cannot understand. If you can accept the fact that there is a God, then you must also accept the fact that He has tremendous powers (after all, He would be responsible for creating the universe and humans!). How could we as humans, with a finite capacity for knowledge, possibly comprehend the infinite knowledge that a God would posess? Even if God tried to "dumb things down" for us, we still would not be able to understand all the difficult questions, like "why do we have to suffer?" "What's the meaning of life?" "If you love us, why do you send people to hell?" etc etc.
As an analogy, imagine trying to explain the thoery of flight to different people. For instance, do you think a 5 year old child would possibly grasp the concepts from Bernoulli or Newton? Or better yet, do you think you could explain something to a different life-form (such as a dog), and expect them to be able to understand you? No matter how much you try to "dumb down" Newton or Bernoulli, it will be impossible for the 5 year old or the dog to understand the truth behind the theory of flight. That 5 year old kid has yet to gain the background knowledge from science that is required to understand the theory. If that 5 year old kid was to go through all the required schooling and take the necessary courses, then his knowledge base will increase and he will start to understand; however, there will still be things that are a mystery to him.
The same logic can be applied to God. Even if God explained how He created the universe or why He created us, do you think we could possibly understand it? I would highly doubt it.
Besides the fact that we simply cannot understand the truth behind faith, I also truly believe that God intended for us to be like that from the beginning (i.e. His plan was for us not to be able to understand everything). Now I know this sounds a little crazy or bizarre, but I believe this has everything to do with faith.
As another analogy, imagine yourself as a teacher (or better yet, imagine yourself as a flight instructor) who is about to administer an exam for all your students. Would it be fair for you to give a copy of the exam and all the answers beforehand to all the students? No. If you did this, then everyone would get the same mark (100%) and there would be no way for you, as the "master" of the classroom, to differentiate the good students from the bad ones. It would, therefore, be impossible for you to develop a reward system for your students. It is best then to give your students an idea of what they can expect to be on the exam, and let them study the material for themselves. Those who work hard and take the time to study the material will do well, while the lazy students will fail and be left to suffer the consequences.
Again, I think the same logic applies to us. If God were to make Himself known to everyone right now then there would be no need for faith, since everyone would obviously believe in Him. God would have no way then to differentiate the faithful from the unfaithful. There would be no doubts as to His existence and there would be no way for God to find out our true character. By revealing Himself to those who open their hearts to him, God can develop a better relationship with those people who want to be close to Him.
And that is the beauty of free-will. God gave us free-will as a gift essentially; the problem is that it is so easy for us to take advantage of it. We are free to live a life of sin and we are free to choose to believe in Him or not. If we did not have free-will, then we would all be puppets, and that would be senseless. But because we have free-will, we must accept the fact that there are consequences to our actions. If we choose to murder or rape someone (or commit any other sin for that matter), then there will be a consequence to this. As a Christian, I believe that the consequences we pay will occur in this lifetime, and in the next one (i.e. after we die).
"Never travel faster than your guardian angel can fly." - Mother Theresa
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TopperHarley
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I missed this part the first time around, and I would like to expand on some of my comments.rotorhead350 wrote:I live my life the way I choose.
I don't want to offend you or anyone else, but I believe that this mentality (i.e. playing God) is a big problem of society today. The problem with this school of thought is its subjective nature. That is, everyone in the world has a different sense of what is right and what is wrong. You mentionned that you do not murder, steal, or rape, and I think everyone here will agree that those actions are wrong; however, some people will have different views. For instance, Hitler, Stalin, Osama Bin Laden and Sadam Hussein all though that they were doing what is right for society. In their minds, they were/are helping their fellow countrymen. It is obvious from our viewpoint that these people were all wrong in their judgments.
I believe that we all need an absolute sense of what is right and what is wrong. We need someone to tell us this because we simply cannot figure it out for ourselves. Some issues are common-sense (ex. stealing, murder, rape). All these issues are obviously wrong because they infringe on the rights of other people. However, what about issues that are less obvious (ex. prostitution, pornography, drunkeness, drugs, etc)? These actions do not infringe on the rights of anyone else but yourself. Without something that clearly depicts these actions as right/wrong, it is too difficult for us, as humans with a finite knowlege level, to develop our own sense of morals. This is why I have made the choice to keep an open mind when it comes to the teachings in the Bible. I might not understand exactly why God does not want me to have pre-marital sex or why He does not want me to get drunk or go do drugs, but I can accept the fact that He knows best for me, and His sense of right and wrong is absolute, while mine is wrong.
As another analogy (I apologize for all these analogies
), imagine yourself as a father. Would you want your daughter to become a prostitute or to do drugs or drink regularly? Furthermore, would you be comfortable knowing that your son is sleeping around with multiple partners or looking at porn every day? I highly doubt that anyone here would want their children engaging in these actions. As a parent, we know what is best for our kids because we have experienced what they are going through. We try to teach them not to do those terrible things, but they still sometimes go behind your back and do it anyways. Furthermore, when you were younger, you probably got mad at your parents for putting restrictions on you. For example, when I was younger, I wanted to go play with my friends or to play nintendo everyday. My parents, however, had different plans for me. They made me do my homework and they made me eat my vegetables, which I hated. At the time, I did not see things the way they saw them- My parents were looking towards the future and were looking out for my best interests; on the other hand, I, as a naive child, was only looking at the present. I didn't care about the future, since all I wanted to do was to have fun NOW. As I have matured and grown older, I now understand why my parents imposed their rules on me. They knew what was best for me, while I did not. I am so thankful that my parents loved me the way they have, because I know that if I didn't change paths when I was younger (I was a horrible student back in elemantary school, and having a parent who is a teacher, you can imagine the grief my father gave me), I would not be where I am today.
The same thing goes with God. He knows what is best for us, while we do not. He cares about what happens to us in the long-run, while most of us do not. His rules may seem restrictive and harsh, but they are there for a reason. Just as our parents put tough rules on us as a child because they loved us, so too does God. We may not understand why we have to follow them, but it is still important that we do.
Again, I am not trying to convert you or to offend you. You seem to be a good person. You are free to live your life as you choose and I must accept that. I might not agree with you, but I can respect you as a person.
"Never travel faster than your guardian angel can fly." - Mother Theresa
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bizjet_mania
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Let me make it easier. You can takea chance and not be a believer and fry in hell, or u can be a believer and not fry in hell. That way you cover your ass. As for the opinions on the matter, I don't care about anyones beliefs. I have my religious beliefs and everyone else has theres. If you like to live a pointless meaningless life go ahead, but don't try to judge what you don't understand. If there were facts and proof then you wouldn't be a believer. the root of all evil is Power and Money not Religion.
Somehow, I don't believe this thread is going the way the poster envisaged - haha! People have been trying to rid the world of Christianity for the past 2000 yrs, every single attempt has failed. The more people are oppressed, the more those who are so inclined, turn to God. Just read Alexander Solzenhitsyns writings if you want some very graphic proof of what oppression does to the individual. He, in my mind was one of the greatest unsung heroes of the past century, maybe all time. He became the darling of the U.S. establishment in the 70's for his role in bringing down the USSR. When he turned the tables at a Harvard commencement address, and labeled the U.S. as a nation headed for disaster, he became too hot to handle. His razor sharp intellect and ability to call it like it was, was too much. I digress, the pursuit of power and money (human pride) is without doubt, the greatest evil this world faces.
I'm givin er all she's got..
the root of all evil is Power and Money not Religion.
Ah, but religion IS money and power. The Big Three have historically been absolute masters at accumulating wealth and power, and using them to horrible ends. There has been no greater scourge on the Western World (and much of the rest of it) than the Roman Catholic Church. Even Hitler failed to destroy as many civilizations. Stalin (despicable as he was) oppressed fewer people than those opressed in the name of the Vatican.I digress, the pursuit of power and money (human pride) is without doubt, the greatest evil this world faces.
P.S. I thought I didn't deserve a reply?
Look, Mummy. There's an airplane up in the sky...
