To be a pilot or not...

[yaro007]

Looking at pictures at the end result and listening to stores of how great it is to fly airlines is great, but nobody tells you the story in between when you start flight training. The 10 years of sacrificed life style is what you have to decide if it's something you will be willing to do. Forget about relationships when you move north to 800 people towns with -20C weather and nothing to do, unless you have someone that will follow you unconditionally. Learn to budget!! If you also end up with student loans to get your flight training done, budgeting will be even harder. Learn to cook cost effective meals. Motivation in this industry is key, if your someone who easily gives up and gets deterred because it's too hard, this industry isn't for you. Being stubborn and impossible to change your mind is key in success. When you have no money, it's cold and the work is hard, this breaks people. So in conclusion, these are the facts and only you can decide if your determination and personality will allow you to continue. The industry is designed to break people because if you can't handle the pressure, and constant testing, then when the shit hits the fan with a hundred people on board, they don't want you to crack at that time. Good luck in your decision and don't let anyone sway you. My parents were against it when I started training but I ignored everyone and now just got my first groundschool at an airline, and they are proud!

[b745]

Unfortunately true and I'm not disagreeing, but what I am noticing is the reality of depression and how badly it hinders my view and makes me only look at the bad, I will say again and again that I hate what the industry is and I dream of the romance, I won't lie to you or myself... I realize that the romance will never come, or it may but for very little time, but there is that little thing on my shoulder whispering "do it, be a pilot, do it, do it, do it". I will never base my decision on a thread of course, I guess I came here when I hit another low and just needed to vent, so I threw out all the negatives...

[altiplano]

I guess I came here when I hit another low

That pretty much sums this forum up.

Look. If your'e not even out of training and your'e depressed about this industry its probably not for you. In fact I think you should drop the internet forums and maybe develop some more life experience and maturity to temper the angst you seem to express before you make any major life decisions. Just my .02 but I'm not a therapist.

[PositiveRate27]

I think every pilot goes through the mental transition that you are going through at some point in their career's. It's the realization that money and operational efficiency makes the world turn, and the people who call the shots aren't interested in our love of flying and the romance we associate with it. I came to this realization when I left instructing and moved to the absolutely disgusting world of 703 flying. Friends of mine were killed and the realization set in that $$$ trumped everything, including safety. Pilots are not highly valued members of a respected team, who are compensated for their hard work and elite skill sets. They are pieces of the machine that make the owners their money.

There is light at the end of the tunnel however. Just because this is the reality of this (and all other industries in the capitalist world) doesn't mean you have to let it get you down. For me, all I had to do was remember why I loved aviation in the first place. It wasn't the nifty uniform, the pretty flight attendants or the massive pay cheques. It's the appreciation for the engineering marvels that we have, and the sheer enjoyment and satisfaction I get from operating them. No amount of financial greed will take those two elements out of my job. I have good days, and bad days like everyone else. Just remember, It's a jay-oh-bee JOB. Don't look for it to fulfill any childhood fantasies and romances, and it won't let you down. When you need that kind of fix, go rent a two place, or find an airshow.


Best of luck

PR

[ettw]

I try to talk every person who asks me about a career in aviation out of it. I see little point. I'm making about the same money as I was in the mid 90s and my kid will make less than me. Job satisfaction? Maybe but I'm away a lot more than if I had stayed in the trades.

Be a plumber. 2 things will never change. 1) sh*t will always go downhill and 2) people will pay you a lot of money to clean it up. Both of things are applicable to our industry, except the lots of money part.

Cheers

ETTW

[b745]

My thinking at this point is I'm 2 years done, 2 years to go, might aswell finish since I dropped the money up to this point, no sense in throwing all that money, time, and effort away... I'll be 22 once I'm done, I think I still have plenty of time to figure out if I'm going to do something else

[Blue Side Up]

If you have the love and passion for flying, you will fly. Whether as a career or as a hobby. Those who truly love the art of flight can't just walk away from it. If you're doing it for the paycheque than you'll be very disappointed initially but it does get better.

There's nothing better than breaking through an overcast layer only to have the sun beaming you in the face - makes me smile every time. Do it for that if you're going to do it but know what you're getting yourself into before you commit. Pros and cons my friend - like anything else in life. For me, the pros outweigh the cons and that's why I'm in this industry. Do your research, talk to people and you'll know what to do.

[North Shore]

Flying is a great hobby.

As soon as anything is a job it will wear on a person.

Forget about money for a little bit while you decide what you want. Even if you go the aviation route you are young enough that you will get through the painful years quicker than most. Money and safety doesn't come until you reach 705 cat. Sure you can make decent money flying a Twin Otter as a Capt. But you don't have safety. So the end goal must be to get to the airlines.

If you do it right you can buy your own plane. Fly on nice days.

Who says that you must get to the airlines? There's tons of great, safe, good-paying jobs in flying without going anywhere near an airline.

[imac0960]

There are lots of other jobs out there with good pay. In my experience, pay isn't important if you hate your job. I found myself thinking "Why would I take a $40k pay cheque to work at a regional airline?"

It didn't seem to make sense. But then management changed and the job I was in became shit. I was offered a pay raise but it didn't change the fact that the job became BS and I hated every minute of it. I eventually quit and pursued my CPL on a full time basis.

Moral: money isn't everything. If you do something you love you'll never work a day in your life.

[wrightbro]

To anyone in any job situation or career planning stage, I read a few posts here and one thing I read and agree with is that there are depressed, whining, compulsive complainers everywhere, just seems to be more in the pilot field. If you want to do something, make a plan and go for it, get advice from many people but don't listen to what they tell you you should do, take bits and pieces of it all to form your plan of action, and that plan may even change from time to time. Enjoy every step of the way and try not to worry because even though you want more money or that better job, you cannot control when those opportunities will arise. So, enjoy, learn and take that last job or experience to move on and do it all over again during the next opportunity. (finish that effin cpl, you never know when it can come in handy... go from there)

[PilotDAR]

If you have the love and passion for flying, you will fly. Whether as a career or as a hobby. Those who truly love the art of flight can't just walk away from it. If you're doing it for the paycheque than you'll be very disappointed initially but it does get better.

There's nothing better than breaking through an overcast layer only to have the sun beaming you in the face - makes me smile every time. Do it for that if you're going to do it but know what you're getting yourself into before you commit. Pros and cons my friend - like anything else in life.

Very good advice.....

[Colonel Sanders]

Pilots get into flying because they love it. But
they only stick around if the money appears.

No money, sooner or later you have to move
on to something else that pays better, if you
want to ever get married, have a family, a
house, etc like a normal person the same age
as you.

Pilots should NOT have to take some vow of
poverty, to enrich their CEO. Not sure if you
guys are following it or not, but the regional
airlines in the USA are parking airplanes because
pilots refuse to fly part 121 for $19k/yr.

Take a few minutes and compare the management
styles of Walmart and Costco. Interesting story
there. Very different styles, and the lessons learned
are quite applicable to aviation. Not that anyone
would care.

[flyinthebug]

Who says that you must get to the airlines? There's tons of great, safe, good-paying jobs in flying without going anywhere near an airline.

Big Plus 1 North Shore! I have spent 20 years in the 703/704 world and have made a good living, flew safe equipment, and made some life long friendships along the way. It doesn't have to be all about making the left seat in a wide body for AC...its about finding what makes you happy and that doesn't equate to having to make the 705 world to achieve all those things. I know many other pilots beyond just me that have made a career in 703/704 aviation and have made good $$$ doing so...and are enjoying flying machines that they love to fly.

[Changes in Latitudes]

I have to agree with North Shore and Flyinthebug, there are a lot of nooks and crannies in this industry where pay, schedule and lifestyle are pretty darn good. They're not often talked about on this forum so that helps paint a darker picture for people who want to use the internet as their sole source of information.

I'll admit, I'm not in love with flying anymore, I like it, it pays my bills, it's interesting work and a good challenge.
You'll need to love it a whole bunch though in order to get through that initial garbage.

[b745]

It's why I haven't quit... It's hard, really hard at times, especially when there's alot on my plate... I do agree airlines is not end all be all, but I personally enjoy the idea of it, and I don't want to sound naive here, this has nothing to do with the whole romance imagine, I've just always liked the idea of cruising at 37,000ft and not giving a dam about anything expect the world gliding beneath as I glide through the sky, to me that's an amazing feeling, always has been... Yes it sounds like a childish dream and the reality is that it's not as pretty as it seems and it won't be like that all the time, but I can say it's what has kept me going and I think I'll keep it that way, there has to be something that motivates me and well this is one of the things that does

[berta']

They probably didn't mention how unhealthy flying is for you in flight school did they? More than a few chest x-rays a month worth of radiation flying in upper flight levels. Crew meals loaded with sodium. New studies showing how bad jet lag and shift work are for increasing your cancer risk etc. Sitting all day isn't doing you any favors either. If you are having those doubts in flight school I would say quit now.

[Changes in Latitudes]

They probably didn't mention how unhealthy flying is for you in flight school did they? More than a few chest x-rays a month worth of radiation flying in upper flight levels. Crew meals loaded with sodium. New studies showing how bad jet lag and shift work are for increasing your cancer risk etc. Sitting all day isn't doing you any favors either. If you are having those doubts in flight school I would say quit now.

Yes, yes, avoid all risks and arrive safely at death. I commute on congested roads to the airport 3 times per month, I wonder what the risk factor looks like versus the person commuting daily to their oh-so-healthy desk job? My crew meal consists of salad and fruit on most days, 99.9 percent of the time I work after 7am with latest nights being 9pm while never exceeding 14 hours of duty. My doctor's biggest concern for me is the amount of time I spent outdoors in the summer time.

There's nothing wrong with discussing the negatives of this career, there's a lot to be aware of and that's why I say you better love it and be willing to go well beyond your comfort zones, especially starting out. People love painting this sour, bitter picture of aviation that often seems inspired by a failed flying career or some form of personal shortcoming. I've caught myself doing it, for sure.
Yes, the industry is tough, and there are some dirty, filthy operators out there, but there's a whole other side as well. Remember, the majority of people enjoying their lives aren't taking the time to write about it on avcanada, aside from the freaks and mutants like myself.

This job has given me a very enjoyable and happy life. It was not a pretty road to get here but I do feel it was worth it. Like any job in this modern world, it may not be here tomorrow but I am grateful that I stuck with it.

[complexintentions]

Hmmm. Walmart versus Costco? You mean the company with 2.1 million employees does things differently than the one with 160,000? Who woulda thunk?

Not that I'm defending predatory wages and employers, Dog knows I've worked my share of both. But if anything, the Walmart/Costco comparison supports the case for regional pilots to make less than their mainline brethren, given that the regional pilots bring in less profit per customer - just as Walmart employees do versus Costco's. I don't really think it's a matter of style, which is subjective. More just economics. And IF, as you say, the boys down south can stand tall and not accept their crap pay, hopefully economics will also sort that out.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... ostco.html

Anyway, back to the topic.

b745,

I hope this doesn't sound rude, but if at the age of 20 you're already considering giving up on something, then the chances are you'd be considering the same at whatever you were endeavouring. In other words I don't think it's an aviation problem, it's a quitting-too-easily problem.

Now, you can be insulted by that, or take it as a positive: there is no reason to leave aviation, because any other worthwhile field you attempt will be similarly difficult and require sacrifice commensurate with the potential reward.

The most important quality you can cultivate is perseverance. You'll need it no matter what you choose. But hey, if I can become a pilot, anyone can!

[Black Cat]

Hi,

I don't have time to read throw the previous post so please forgive me if I am repeating anything.

Short answer is don't do it if the airlines are your goal. There still may be a future in corporate flying but it can be cyclical and The schedules are hard to plan a life around.

If you are going to pursue the airline pass please watch these four videos before you commit. They provide a realistic snapshot into the aviation around the world and how the downward pressure on wages and working conditions for pilots is a global epidemic.

We have just started to see the scourge of bottom of the barrel pilots flying for airlines in Canada with Westjet encore and sky regional pilots excepting jobs for far less than industry-standard wages and working conditions.

Air Canada just had a concessionary contract and the latest contract forced upon them and with the creation of rouge their pilots are working for less. WestJet pilots were just offered what could be considered a concessionary contract during times of record profitability.

In closing, if my son or daughter ever consider a career in aviation I will do everything in my power to stop it.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but if somebody had burst of mine 20 years ago I probably would've made something of myself.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8kePiiZ8_YA

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6qLlXey6BEs

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tKQJx3L_CDQ

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cL3QV5XK4g8

[b745]

Not insulated because I realize that it's more of a quitting thing then you don't like aviation... But sorry, not everyone can be a pilot, people slip between the cracks that shouldn't have but there are people that just shouldn't be flying period...

Once again, I'm not going to quit, im going to finish for the sake of money and time that I've already invested and then I'll be 22 and plenty of time to decide what to do....

[complexintentions]

Black Cat,

Respectfully - as I don't mean to diminish the fact of poor wages for many pilots - the factors you describe are hardly limited to aviation. It's a worldwide, across all industries phenomena. What career WOULD you advise for your son or daughter?

These days, particularly for under-25's, you're lucky if you can find a job. You're really lucky if you can find a job you don't despise. And you're truly fortunate if you not only enjoy your job, but are paid well for it. But first things first.

As long as we keep exponentially pumping out more human beans, and keep replacing jobs with technology, the downwards pressure on labour will continue. Your son/daughter is competing with a lot of hungry Indian/Chinese. I know. I work alongside them every day.

[Black Cat]

Correct, it is happening I a lot of industries. I may disagree with your sub 25yo finding a decent job comment though. I work with many pilots who's kids make a shight load of cash with little experience and some that do even better with a trade or degree. I can't think of a better time to be young with entry level positions in many fields. A kid that finished high school now will be further ahead choosing any of the following professions than the same kid that gets stuck in the 50k a year latter climb before reaching the 36k airline job and working his way up. Plus the cost of the divorce and missing your kids birthdays and Christmas cannot be measured in a wage.


Electritian or any other blue collar trade 65-90k
Nurse 80k
Teacher 60k to start make at 85k

Vet licence to print money
Dentist
Train engineer 80k no schooling require
OIL PATCH TRADE 100k+ or if your just a dumb guy like me and want to make 55k to start

This list goes on, but For My kids? Anything but a pilot. Worst career choice ever lol

[BDG]

Long time lurker, but I am moved by this thread and felt the need to express my experiences.

I too used to question the wisdom of an aviation career. PPL in 96, CPL MIFR in 00. First flying gig in 2011. Took the long road to get here. However It gave me the the benefit of working a multitude of different jobs over the years, from $40 a night bouncing at a bar, to an $80k a year site job. Nothing I did was satisfying, and I always dreamed of flying.

Finally I decided to just do it and took a ramp job, after all it still beat repairing sewers. After 3 years of fueling, the company shut down. Found another ramp job, finally got a checkout, fast foreword another 3 years and it still feels like I haven't had to work a day yet.

So yes. If you go about it for the right reasons, aviation can be the best decision you have ever made. If you are in it for the money, or prestige, you will be sorely disappointed.

One of the great things I have found about aviation is that if you are willing to persevere and go where the opportunities present themselves you can find the type of flying that appeals to you.

Not everyone wants to fly airliners, I know career instructors who live for the joy of teaching, others who are happy to live a semi nomadic lifestyle as survey pilots. A good friend of mine has done quite well for himself as a bush pilot in the arctic.

There are as many different niches in aviation as you can dream of, and if there isn't what is to stop you from creating it.

Simply put, it just takes a little time to find out what type of flying makes you happy, from there its a no-brainer.

But then again what do I know?
Im just a BigDumbGuy who loves his job.