What do I do?

[Quinny]

Hope you come back to post how your efforts are going. We would certainly like to see good news. At the end of the day....take what information will help you. Hang in there, compartmentalize the douchebags from the good men/women and get on with it. The first while is always hard but if you keep your chin up the good people tend to see that.

[Naossoan]

Hey thanks a lot esp803 for your help and input.

I do realize that there are some bitter/angry people out there especially in this industry. I was just pretty frustrated when I was writing my posts because I had spent a week looking online for jobs and basically came up almost completely empty handed and was just kind having a "WHAT THE F??" couple of days when the harsh realization of what my flight instructor and school had been telling me about how it's difficult to find a job. I knew it was going to be difficult, I just didn't think it would be THIS difficult.

As for flight instructing I have considered going that route but to be honest I don't think I have the personality for it. I just don't think I would be a very good instructor for some reason. Maybe my flight school would disagree but I'd have to see what they thought. It would cost me like another 6-8k for an instructor rating I guess eh? Hmm...

I'll do what you said about looking through that registry for what you specified and hopefully come up with something...

A 1 page resume eh...mine is 2 and I thought it was short and had everything I wanted to say..I didn't think I could condense it anymore but I'll have to revisit it!

I just don't have any money left so I'm pretty stressed out. Literally 0 in the bank with 20k on a line of credit...just started working back at my old job while trying to figure this all out. It's very frustrating and emotional experience because it's like....It's my dream, you know? It just feels like there's this impenetrable wall stopping me. Ugh.

Anyway, thank you for your help.

[FogboundBird]

I finished my CPL Multi/IFR/float in January this year. I went on a tear in the resume department, I then waited and worked my oil job. 2 weeks later I was offered a job over the phone. 3 weeks after this I was phoned for an interview at the company I've wanted since high school. I kid you not the next day after my 2nd interview i was offered a 3rd job. Now I don't know if I had a dynamite cover letter/ resume or if I've got the worlds largest golden horse shoe submerged in my rectum. Now it sounds to me like you are on your own financially which shows you are driven to break into the industry, Keep working hard and try to stay positive and good things will happen man. The time to get hired is NOW! Its probably hard to take this advice from a fresh CPL that had Ma and Pa pay for well over half his license (Shout out to the Parents) but positivity and persistence is the only thing that will keep you motivated and in the hunt! Good luck champ.


FBB

[Colonel Sanders]

A 1 page resume eh...mine is 2

Cut it down to one page. You simply don't
have more relevant aviation experience or
qualifications than that. Don't feel the need
to list your awards from high school, unless it
was for building or flying an airplane.

Learn to focus a resume for a particular job
or company.

While carpet-bombing resumes is easy and
cheap (and thusly you must do it), people
generally try to hire people they know
somehow. Or have at least met in person.

With that in mind, remember that people
get hired for WHO they know, not WHAT
they know. Not fair, I know.

Free advice: get a job working the ramp.
Have another job, too, but get a job as a
refuelling ramp guy. It will keep you out
at the airport and around airplanes. Smile
when you meet people, because they are
the ones who are going to hire you.

[Shiny Side Up]

I was just pretty frustrated when I was writing my posts because I had spent a week looking online for jobs

Come now, you didn't really think it was going got be that easy did you? When a year comes up and you have no luck and you've put the effort in to get out there and talk to people then you have a right to be frustrated. There's been some good advice here, but I get the sense that you don't have a lot of work experience aviation related or not. If so, you'd already know that the best way to get hired anywhere for anything is to get your face in there. Even McDonalds hires the kids who fill out an application in person over those who don't.

Your week of surfing the net to find a job qualifies as zero effort to find one. Come back here when you've tried a little harder.

A 1 page resume eh...mine is 2 and I thought it was short and had everything I wanted to say..I didn't think I could condense it anymore but I'll have to revisit it!

There's lots of threads here that have commentary on how to write resumes. Keep it short, keep it simple, keep it relevant. For someone with no flying experience, the top should have your contact info, followed shortly by a short summary of your flight qualifications. Keep that short. You don't need to have an exhaustive break down of your time. Hiring people are interested in total time and licenses held in your regard. Yours will look like the following:

Commercial Pilot's License
2XX hours total time

A night rating is assumed to be part of the CPL. Your time isn't enough to warrant a breakdown. You can list type, but by the sounds of it you have only one so I wouldn't worry much about that.

After that is should be a list of your last three employers, and a summary of how long you worked there. The bottom should list any other qualifications, useful ones. Followed by three references. Surprisingly enough I have to tell adults that their Mom and Dad don't count as references. If you have none, then work to get some.

I'm sure that can all be squeezed on one page.

I just don't think I would be a very good instructor for some reason.

So far, I can think of lots of reasons.

....It's my dream, you know? It just feels like there's this impenetrable wall stopping me.

Most people for some reason haven't figured out that the world doesn't give a shit about your dreams. You think you're the only person that has one? If there's a wall in front of you, you won't get over it without a little work. I hope you weren't under the impression life was going to be easy.

[cdnpilot77]

I do realize that there are some bitter/angry people out there especially in this industry. I was just pretty frustrated when I was writing my posts because I had spent a week looking online for jobs and basically came up almost completely empty handed and was just kind having a "WHAT THE F??" couple of days when the harsh realization of what my flight instructor and school had been telling me about how it's difficult to find a job. I knew it was going to be difficult, I just didn't think it would be THIS difficult.

As I just wrote in another thread, there is some luck involved, but much luck comes from much effort and creating your own luck!

This paragraph above is a very telling one. First, people aren't necessarily bitter or angry because they tell you the truth. One thing for certain, if the truth hurts, it will be a long difficult existence in aviation.

Secondly, some of us got our start during the last recession. In fact, even after I had a job for 2 summers, I found myself out of work for a full year (to the day)!!! I had a wife, mortgage car payment etc. I found a way to live but also spent every waking hour tracking down any lead for a flying job. (To the CP's that I called nearly every week, sorry) . But that's the way it is. It's difficult, get over it and move on, figure out the way that works for you. Everyone has a different theory of how to make it work, but truth is, it worked for them, might not for you. You have to find your own stride utilizing all the info that has be parlayed to you here.

There is some very good advice on this thread but also spread all around avcanada. Best of luck to you!

[ragbagflyer]

I was just pretty frustrated when I was writing my posts because I had spent a week looking online for jobs and basically came up almost completely empty handed and was just kind having a "WHAT THE F??" couple of days when the harsh realization of what my flight instructor and school had been telling me about how it's difficult to find a job. I knew it was going to be difficult, I just didn't think it would be THIS difficult.

A whole week!! Online!!! Man, it sure is a tough world out there!

Make your list and go start banging on doors. If you don't have anything lined up by June consider making your first priority to get out of debt while you still have the opportunity to make decent money. That debt can be crippling when you are stuck making a lousy wage. If you go to Alberta or Northern BC and work through to next spring you can be out of debt, have some saving and pay for another rating. You're going to need another rating no matter what; the pool of single engine wheel non-instructing jobs is miniscule.

To sum up: make money (doing anything), get a useful rating, do a road trip, stop complaining If you can stay persistent and present yourself well you'll find a job.

[Rowdy]

Frustrated after a week? I spent two MONTHS when I started and got a whole lot of nothing, but kept the chin up and kept hounding people. It does eventually pay off

[iflyforpie]

How about two years? And that was for a second job after I had nearly 400 hours, a multi IFR, float, and instructor rating.

Mind you, I was picky. But that was mostly because I didn't want to wind up dead or in jail. One of the guys who wanted to hire me actually wound up doing hard time after I rejected his offer.

[Planebloke]

Hey mate, if you check my other posts you will see I am not from Canada, but the advice I can give is from my personal experience. I have been in a few countries working, when I got my cpl a few years back I was lucky that I was older and therefore understood a little better how managers/cp's hired.

My biggest skill was not a Multi Instrument rating or my float rating or tail wheel time but my ability to interact with people either by letter or in person. I realized very early on that if I wanted to fly in the bush I needed to fit the profile of the kind of guy that they would like to hire. Can I hold myself in a conversion about Cessna aircraft, do I know which engines are in the aircraft the operator runs, can I ask sensible questions about the area they fly in or their operation. You want whoever meets you, from another pilot to a fuel guy to go away thinking what a good bloke.

Its a sort of mind game really, as you have been told, tailor your cv and cover letter to the company, think of other skills you have and suggest that they may be of use. When you meet potential employers be polite and respectful, especially to the receptionist who works closely with the boss and is more than likely asked for her opinion. (Treat her as if she is as important as she thinks she is)

To give you an example, in Australia in the Northern Territory a few guys get there first jobs, I have heard many a time from CP's up there that they are sick of 200hr guys writing that they have G1000 time as if it is an asset to these companies who run thirty year old machines. (tailor your cv)

When I got my cpl all I had was day VFR with tail wheel, I wanted to fly in the African bush. Instead of feeling under qualified compared to the other guys, I sold the fact that I was serious about being a bush pilot and did not have my multi Instrument rating because I had no plans to dash off to an airline. Now it may sound an odd thing to do, but I knew the majority of guys who go for these jobs, would skip to an airline with no hesitation and the operators were tired of people leaving with no notice. It worked and I was hired flying in Africa with 206hrs TT with in two months of my cpl flight test.

Its not easy and I appreciate that Canada is a little different but get stuck in, do the ramp/dock work have a good attitude and start to sharpen your people skills/letter writing and learn to stand out for the right reasons. Do not piss anyone off, these people come back to haunt you ten years down the track when you apply for a job you really want and realize the CP's best friend is your old foe from way back.

And also understand that forums are really useful but its very easy to get flamed on, I learnt my lesson on PPRUNE years ago. The problem I think comes from the lack of seeing each other, allot is read into each others posts. And there are loads of guys on here and prune who are always abrupt and rude, its life get over it.

hope it helps in some way

[SPR]

Naossoan, imagine if you overheard an actor say this: "I just took six months of acting classes, and I've been sending out headshots for a week, but I don't have a single audition yet! Everyone keeps telling me I'm going to have to get another job and start networking while I build my profile, but I'm an actor, not a waiter. I took acting classes, so I should be a movie star, and I'm not going to accept anything less." Having a licence doesn't entitle you to a job, it's your attitude and work ethic, with a bit of luck, that will get you into a cockpit. Sometimes you need to make sacrifices and do work that you'd rather not do, because that's the only way you'll get what you want.
If you don't like the state of the industry, and you can't change the industry, then the only thing you can change is your attitude. Rather than lamenting that you didn't have a job waiting for you on a silver platter when you got out of flight school, you should change your mentality to one of determination and focus. Rather than "Oh man...I don't want to work on the ramp. This is stupid.", you should be thinking "Well, if that's what it takes to get into an airplane, then that's what I'll do, and I'll do the best job I can even if I'm not flying. I'll do what I have to do to make my dream a reality." If you're not willing to go after it with all you've got, and do some things you don't want to do, then you should re-evaluate how much you actually want it. Almost everyone on here has struggled at some point, usually for a lot longer than a week, so expecting sympathy or a helping hand because you're more deserving than all the other low-timers won't get you anywhere.
As for actual tangible advice, it all depends on what you want from your career. If you only ever want to fly single-engine VFR on wheels, your options are pretty limited; to start out, there are skydiving and gliding operations, and I know there are several of those in BC, but you're still going to have to knock on some doors and show how eager you are to work there. Pretty much anything else and you're looking at some ramp time, probably far up north. Once you've got a bit of experience, there are some Caravan operations, surveys, and pipeline patrol, but you're still pretty restricted if you're not willing to get some more ratings. On a side note, you should get out of BC if you don't find something quickly; there is a fraction the number of operators there compared to a little further east.
If you want to stick to VFR for your career, I'd suggest getting a float rating and finding a job on a dock. Most of those have a bit of flying involved, and sometimes lead to a pilot position in the first season. If you want to do anything else (i.e. airlines, medevac, etc.) you're going to need your multi-IFR at some point, and you'll almost certainly have to work the ramp. If you don't know anyone who can get you a job, then you have to suck it up and take your lumps like everyone else. If you can't make that kind of a sacrifice and put up with a bit of manual labour then you're probably not going to get far. That's not a criticism, that's a harsh reality, and like it or not that's how this industry works.

[Jack In The Box]

Jeez, the guy just vents his frustrations and he gets razzed not that I wasn't expecting that, and actually this thread has a lot less razzing then I would think normal. don't act all high and mighty like you all haven't been where this guy is, frustrated and a bit deceived. How ridiculous is it that you now have the gall to tell him to "can it" just because you have the high and mighty "been there done that" card (sounds pretty similar to entitlement that many are accusing the op of, no?). This guy just has the gall to complain publicly, let him.

Sorry to hear about your dose of reality man. If you're persistent it will pay off. Hopefully the best times are ahead, i remain optimistic.

[Naossoan]

Oh I do have the determination and I do feel a little bit deceived. Not by the industry itself but my flying school did tell me that it shouldn't be that hard to find a job because the market is on the uprise.

But that aside, yeah I was frustrated after looking online because there are so few operators even listed in any kind of central location or even advertising jobs at all. I just didn'tknow where to look beyond that. I found on the transport cCanada website that you can look up operators based on aircraft type so that could help find operators to call but you can only search for 1 type. They don't have any sort of blanket such as single engine light etc. So I'm glad the registry thing was mentioned so I can look into that.

Obviously im not going to spill my entire life story but i have accomplished a lot in my life and have a lot of experience in many different areas though all COMPLETELY unrelated to aviation, so i just wasnt familiar with how it all works is all.

I appreciate the importance of meeting people in person but its just not viable for me to do because like i said i literally have 0 money with 20k on credit and yes i did pay for this all myself. It'll cost me another 1 or 2 thousand to drive around the country to meet operators in person!

So yeah like the one guy said. Change my perspective, take a ramp job. If I can'tfind one iI know people in Alberta who can get me a labour job which is what I was planning on doing anyway if Iccouldn't find anything for this season to help pay off the debt faster. I work a labour'ish job right so not a problem.

People jump to a lot of conclusions, and yeah my post did come off as whiney and stuff I guess. Saying I have no perspective, no life experience, no this or that or that I'm an entitled little bitch (in not such mean words)..simply because it wasn't clear to me on where to look further. Wow, ok guys.

Thanks for all the meaningful comments. Really appreciate it.

[Krimson]

Use the TC website to search for any aircraft you feel you would be qualified for. Do some research and find out more information about each company. Cold call them, figure out how they feel about hiring you, then plan a road trip and stop by everyone who sounded promising.
Take the extra 1-2 thousand as a loan from the bank, you're already 20k in, what's another $1,000 to secure a job?

Months of work, but that's what worked for me when I first started. It takes a lot of effort to sit on top of the pile, if you're not going to do it, someone else will.


Your flight school said what they needed to say to get your money. It's their business, it's a sales pitch. No job is going to come looking for you.
Another piece of advice, don't look down on certain positions or jobs. You have to start somewhere, and you don't know what you're missing out on.

[andy.air]

@Naossoan

If I were in your shoes, I'd probably focus more on getting out of debt first with just any job you can find that pays a margin greater than minimum wage. Perhaps that labour job you mentioned. You are very limited in your choices given that you do not currently possess a Multi-IFR, Instructor Rating, nor Float, and unless you are lucky, the kinds of ramp jobs you may end up with will likely be more than what you bargained for (wages can be quite low unless you are lucky). If you are dying to fly, however, definitely knock on the doors of the local dropzones, but be warned, you may not necessarily get out of debt via this method, which means your training may stagnate. I have heard from a friend who used to work at one that he made so little he actually lost money. Given the circumstances, this can potentially be a dream crusher.

Knocking on doors via a road trip is more worth it than sitting back trying to fire off resumes online. If it is not viable to you, then focus on the debt problem first. If you look online for an entry level flying job, you will be hard pressed. Each time an operator puts an entry-level job posting out, they receive hundreds upon hundreds of resumes without a face to them, and they tend to hire the guy that shows up at the door anyway. I suspect that most don't even bother putting an ad online.

[dahspeers]

Edit - Not worth it

[beaverbob]

Naossoan;

I am going to private message you in a day or two. Don't get all excited and sit on pins and needles waiting. I just want to discuss your options and challenges in private.

Where in BC are you?

Beaverbob.

[GUMPS]

Why are you bothering to looking online, let alone a road trip, just leave your resume in the Hire Me section. It's that easy.

[imac0960]

Now is the time to be looking at contacting employers. Call them up and see if they are looking. If they are pay them a visit. If you're not willing to do it, someone else will be.

I'd rather hire someone who shows up ready to work versus someone who fires off one email from across the country.