MAS370 Was Shot Down

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lostaviator
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Re: MAL370 Was Shot Down

Post by lostaviator »

I love a good conspiracy…. How about this.. Anyone notice how this took place right around the time Russia went bonkers on Ukraine? hmmm. Headline stealer?
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Mig29
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Re: MAL370 Was Shot Down

Post by Mig29 »

theory is possible....especially when the entire search moved to everywhere else but to the last point of radar contact....but to many would have to own up to this theory, so I doubt it will ever be released to the public. Not any time soon at least....
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YBW-Kid
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Re: MAL370 Was Shot Down

Post by YBW-Kid »

linecrew wrote:Geez, you got me going there with the title. FYI, MAL is the three letter identifier for Morningstar, which is a Canadian cargo carrier.

Can you please go through your post and correct the "MAL" to "MAS". Thanks.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines

My apologies- I have corrected it.
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Rookie50
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Re: MAL370 Was Shot Down

Post by Rookie50 »

Eric Janson wrote:
I'm not sure people understand the vastness of the Indian Ocean. The current search area is the size of a European country and you are looking for small objects that are moving.

I fly between the Middle East and Australia. Close to 5000nm over open ocean
Hmm. I'll think twice before attempting it in my 182. Might be out of gliding distance.

Sorry a light joke was called for.
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Meddler
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Re: MAS370 Was Shot Down

Post by Meddler »

"With the servicemen being free citizens able to point out a coverup, it would be very difficult for the military to hide this. When they've tried, the truth eventually comes out."

Is that what Ed Snow den was counting on? If I were free citizen american (or canadian for that matter) servicman who knew something embarassing of that magnitude I would put myself and family first and keep my mouth shut.
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: MAS370 Was Shot Down

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

Meddler wrote:"With the servicemen being free citizens able to point out a coverup, it would be very difficult for the military to hide this. When they've tried, the truth eventually comes out."

Is that what Ed Snow den was counting on? If I were free citizen american (or canadian for that matter) servicman who knew something embarassing of that magnitude I would put myself and family first and keep my mouth shut.
Yup
Illya
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MrWings
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Re: MAS370 Was Shot Down

Post by MrWings »

Meddler wrote: If I were free citizen american (or canadian for that matter) servicman who knew something embarassing of that magnitude I would put myself and family first and keep my mouth shut.
There will always be courageous people, like Snowden, who are willing to speak out. History has proved this.
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CFR
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Re: MAS370 Was Shot Down

Post by CFR »

"Three can keep a secret, if two of them are dead". - Benjamin Franklin

Having been in the military and then working my entire career with DND, I can say with some confidence that secrets most often eventually get out. And the more people who know, the faster they get out!

Movies and TV give far more credit to the ability of organizations to keep secrets than is deserved.

What I find interesting is it is usually the same people that label government and military as incompetent boobs, that then claim these same boobs can expertly manipulate a situation (responding in minutes, globally) to contain the spread and to bury the info for all time.

If the answer comes out, I suspect it is going to be far simpler than most of the speculation. I often wonder what the predominant theory would have been if Air France 447's black boxes had never been found. And by the way, they never sent a distress call even though the aircraft was fully functional. Had it not been for ACARS data they may have simply disappeared and today we would be speculating that MAS370 was another Air France!!!
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crazy_aviator
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Re: MAS370 Was Shot Down

Post by crazy_aviator »

In a decompression, what are the chances that even 1 of the crew could not figure out how to operate his mask? Quite unlikely !
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imarai
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Re: MAS370 Was Shot Down

Post by imarai »

What a gawd awful thread this is..
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Gino Under
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Re: MAS370 Was Shot Down

Post by Gino Under »

The B777 has a number of interesting ADs. Some, repetitive throughout the aircrafts lifespan. The thought of a decompression or un-commanded stabilizer movement not entirely out of the question. Of particular interest is the one regarding the Aft Pressure Bulkhead.

"what are the chances that even 1 of the crew could not figure out how to operate his mask"

It's easy to speculate and all theories seem to be possible but I prefer the more basic. If this aircraft suffered a sudden explosive decompression at high altitude ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE including the assumption that both pilots failed to don their masks and quite possibly didn't use 100% and may even have succumbed to hypoxia. Allowing the aircraft to fly on autopilot until fuel exhaustion.

Loss of control is a complete possibility.
A turn off the airway following a decompression also reasonable.
Any turns left or right in an upset recovery are also possible.

I point to them because the ADs warn that loss of control is not only likely but possible should either occur.
Anyone care to speculate on the crews ability to handle startle, fear, and any unexpected events like these during flight over water in the middle of the night while trying to grasp what's going on???

No one. Not one person, except David Learmont of Flight magazine, has even mentioned Airworthiness Directives. Even Mr. Learmont poo-pooed their applicability. I find that shocking, especially since Malaysian has had an inflight incident in Austrailia with one of its own B777-200s that almost resulted in a loss of control.
I should think CNN would be all over this.

Shot down? Possible. But, not likely.

Gino Under :partyman:
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MUSKEG
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Re: MAS370 Was Shot Down

Post by MUSKEG »

What part of " someone turned off the transponder" do you not understand???
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MrWings
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Re: MAS370 Was Shot Down

Post by MrWings »

How does one determine that the transponder was turned off vs a transponder failure, especially without any physical evidence?
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boeingboy
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Re: MAS370 Was Shot Down

Post by boeingboy »

argh................ :roll:
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Gino Under
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Re: MAS370 Was Shot Down

Post by Gino Under »

MUSKEG

What part of "catastrophic failure" don't you understand? I'll help you work through it if you like.
In 1985 JAL lost a B747 due to a pressure bulkhead failure. It affected many systems onboard that made the aircraft impossible to control, but don't take my word for it, read the report for yourself. It's an interesting read. This might have also happened to MH370 as it relates to the AD I mentioned in my previous post.

You might also consider further research WRT the 777. The ADIRU through internal failure (the air data part) can cause a transponder failure. It's in the B777 manual if you'd care to read that while you're at it.

BTW
There's more than one way for a transponder to cease operation. Switching it off is one way. But, we won't have the answer as to why this one stopped operating until we have the physical evidence, as already suggested.

Gino Under :partyman:
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MUSKEG
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Re: MAS370 Was Shot Down

Post by MUSKEG »

Let me see if I can follow your thought line Gino. A 747 (note completely different design) has a rear bulkhead failure which ultimately caused it to crash. The 777 has never had an accident caused by failure of the rear bulkhead but hey, it could happen. Ok I get that. Coinciding with the failure of the bulkhead the ADIRU also decides I'm done, to bad so sad. Now inspite of the catastrophic failure WHICH you state makes the aircraft uncontrollable it continues to fly for hours before eventually running out of fuel and crashes. Hmmmm. I'm sure the 777 manual also states that if #1. Transponder fails turn on # 2. Oh by the way, that black car that just drove by slowly -------- yup CIA
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Gino Under
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Re: MAS370 Was Shot Down

Post by Gino Under »

MUSKEG

Your sarcasm is lost on me. Sorry, I don't respond well to someone who comes across as having insufficient experience in aviation to carry out an intelligent discussion or debate.
CIA? Seriously?

As suggested in my previous post some reading might go a long way in broadening your knowledge and comprehension of things that MAY be more relevant to this mystery and which could provide a reason for this unique disappearance but it doesn't mean either of us suggest "our" theories are necessarily spot on or fluff. I leave it to your imagination, not sarcasm, but either way it's going to take some creative thinking in the absence of fact whenever we choose to speculate.

I'm speculating.

Someone didn't necessarily intentionally turn off the transponder whether it was 1 or 2.
I can certainly explain how this plane might have ended up with an unconscious crew and pax with the AT and AP engaged in basic modes till it ran out of fuel. CNN just hasn't called me in yet to shoot my mouth off. :?:

By the way, I missed your explanation why the FAA issued the Aft Pressure Bulkhead AD for the B777? I'm curious to know whether you even took the time to read it or not.
If you did, it wouldn't take much to imagine possible scenarios and reasons for any crew to have more than they could handle due to whatever might have resulted from this kind of failure, especially if it resulted in structural damage, loss of control and/or systems failures leading to a big splash.
Actually, Boeing pressure bulkheads are pretty much the same design. Circular. Not egg-shaped or oval. Circular. The model isn't necessarily relevant.

CIA?

Ask me to explain my theory, answer a question, the basis for my imagination or whatever. But, let's not waste our time on sarcasm.

Bazinga!

Gino Under :roll:
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boeingboy
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Re: MAS370 Was Shot Down

Post by boeingboy »

Gino,
Just what was the flight path of MH370? and how does that compare to JAL123?

They don't. plain and simple. Jal did not and would not continue flying for hours on end - hell - it was barely controlled flight. The odds this accident was caused by structural failure of any kind are extreamly remote. Don't forget the FMC was most likely programmed before the xponder went dead and the plane was being navigated for a while after stuff went south.
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CFR
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Re: MAS370 Was Shot Down

Post by CFR »

Was not the JAL bulkhead failure traced to an incorrect repair? Is the same situation present on the MAS aircraft?

In the end all aircraft accidents can be blamed on the fact that gravity sucks.
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Tom H
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Re: MAS370 Was Shot Down

Post by Tom H »

Well everyone has a different take away

What I get from what Gino Under has brought forward is this

1) There are a number of known ADs on the B777, one specifically for the aft bulkhead

This would make all the ADs, but particularly the aft bulkhead AD points of suspicion for a major structural failure which could lead to loss of control by the flight crew, sudden decompression and other nasties.

I have also read, but not in depth, relating to cockpit fires (two that I have read of) on the B777 (you can pull up the stories on line) that in different circumstances would have led to major disasters (nice to be lucky once in a while).

One, the other or a combination of both could just as easily be the speculated cause as anything else, but the ADs already have a tracking record making them a little more worth researching till other evidence surfaces.

2) Crew reaction, incapacitation, fatality
Who knows how any combination of crew will act in a case of major failure or multiple failures leading to a disaster? No one as everyone and every combination of people acts differently in that situation...seen it myself in non aviation circumstances.

And lets not forget how quickly the final stages of the Peggy's Cove disaster over came the crew at the end.

The short version is there is simply not enough information to draw a conclusion or exclude any possibility at this time (and even some of the "so called" accurate information keeps changing).

At this point Gino's explanation makes as much sense as a "shoot down" or aliens and the CIA.

Speculation is just speculation till the information improves.

In my highly biased personal opinion
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