Schools say industry "Begging" for AME's???

HeavyD · Post by **HeavyD** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:22 pm

Hello all. Been awhile since I posted here. Looked into a few Structures courses recently and noticed they all said there is a "big demand" for structures guys and there is a "crisis" looming. Anyone think maybe things will turn around re: payscales, etc..? due to this "crisis"? Or is this just more hot air? Its weird..I spoke with a guy at NAIT in Edmonton who said his son is making 100+/yr doing Structures contract work for/on Challenger aircraft in Montreal, then I read on here that things basically still suck.. When you guys entered school did the instructors paint a rosy picture of the industry and promise all kinds of cash and work? Are AME-S guys finding it any easier than AME-M's? Or is it all the same? Thanks.

Pat Richard · Post by **Pat Richard** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:35 am

Like I could pass this up....

I just was talking to an ex-ame(now a plumber) last week, and he was telling me how he ran into an old instructor just recently.
Apparently, fresh apprentices, right out of his school, are getting as much as $29 a/hr

. Could'nt/would'nt provide details, just that there is a huge demand for graduates. Same instructor was also preaching to a business aquaintance "that people who dislike being Ame's must just be in bad situations. It's a great career, with many benefits, and great pay", and " the canadian AME license is in demand worldwide, you can go anywhere!" Apparently, he's never heard of JARS.

For me, hearing garbage like that, in particular the apprentice wage, makes me want to vomit. It is simply bullshit. I was running a base, with multiple a/c and staff, and was making a dollar more, and it's still considered big money for AME's.

It totally sickens me that they still continue to spread the deception around, and people eat it up. I would love for the propaganda spewing clown to get on this forum, and back up his claims with actual names of companies who are demanding so many green apprentices, at such prices. Wonder what they're paying experienced people, cause I know many AME's who are below $25 a/hr, who would gladly give up their "title" for an extra 5-7 bucks an hour.

As for the line about mass retirements = big job market, believe what you want. We've all heard that line forever. They don't mention that in the future, new aircraft will, and currently do, require much less maintenance than previous types, and older types are rapidly being retired because of high maintenance costs, and heavy fuel consumption. Airlines are getting rid of them ASAP because it makes financial sense.
Problem is, thats the types of a/c the schools train people on. 30 year old(or older)technology. Those a/c will soon be gone, except for areas like the arctic or africa. So Im curious as to the reasoning to continue training the masses on irrelevant equipment, particularly since the lionshare of the funding is taxpayer's money. Good money after bad.

Anyway, do some research on your own, and come to your own conclusion. I'd like to say listen to what everyone has to say, but I have to say, don't believe a word the college clowns spew. Their best interest conflicts with the truth, so there's no benefit to them in being honest. If they're class intake lessens, they're funding does also, and they can be out of work. They could care less what happens to you after you've paid your money.

I hate to keep going on about this topic, particularly since I've left aviation, but it's like a reflex every time I hear the bs the schools spew out, I feel like strangling something.

....

Cheers'

Pat

[/b]

HeavyD · Post by **HeavyD** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 10:36 am

Hey thanks for the reply Pat. I figured there was a lot of BS being chucked out there, but I wanted to confirm my suspicions. Thanks again.

chubbee · Post by **chubbee** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:08 pm

had a coffee this week with a buddy who is now instructing at BCIT and he says the school is not busy as the fresh faces are not buying the BS Pat refers to. He will likely go back to AC when he gets his call he just hates the shifts. The $$ are not what they make out to apprentices BCIT has salary surveys posted on its web from graduates and they are OK for realism.

HeavyD · Post by **HeavyD** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:52 pm

I looked at the wages, and they are Ok, but not that great considering the responsibility AME's have. My nephew started at $11/hr as an electrical apprentice and I bet he doesn't worry much about his job when he goes home..each night... at 5 or 6...with weekends off... Oh well, I still hope that things turn around sometime since I am sure there are others like me who would like to be in aviation if the conditions were better

mi26 · Post by **mi26** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:53 pm

I would not believe a word coming from this instructor. About a year ago I had a chance to chat with one of my instuctors at BCIT and he felt bad that all these students would grad and have to get a job while there is many Licensed experienced guys on the street.

ottopilot · Post by **ottopilot** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:52 pm

I was making $25 as an apprentice and now I make more then that as an M1 & M2 engineer. However I am up north. As far as I know the wage i was making was the highest I've ever heard for an apprentice. But you have to take into account the cost of living.

PITA · Post by **PITA** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:11 pm

Begging for AME's

Of course the industry is begging for AME's. They want the guys straight out of college ready to "get er done" start earning the all the money they spent on learning the 5 tuck splice. However "we can't pay you much right now until you get your licence. " Then it will be " Well a licence isn't any good until you get more experiance" So after 5-6 years on the job another industry (usually construction) comes along with more money and better working conditions and good by aviation.

So yeah the industry is begging for more AMe's always has and always will.

PITA

planeguy · Post by **planeguy** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:34 pm

what would a forum like this be without me inputting my input...

$29 an hour??? I think what happened so time ago is that human beings started putting confidence in other human beings to the point where if I'd say that I once did 3 D Checks in one day on 3 different 777s alone, people would believe me. There's gullable, and then there's ignorance. Structures??? Maybe the price is possible. But, for any apprentice who thinks they're getting over $15/hr down south other than air canada, you got another thing coming. And don't listen to your instructors, read textbooks instead, and read surveys.

Pat Richard · Post by **Pat Richard** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:18 pm

Sorry....had to add this. Im still laughing....

From bcit site

"Why become an Aircraft Maintenance Engineer?

Prestigious job

Top salary

Free travel "

one of the reasons for my entering the biz, unfortunatly found out ame's are ranked below friends of pilots and luggage, in terms of getting on board.

and it goes on.....

"and licenced aircraft maintenance engineers can earn between $5,000 - $6,000 (CDN) per month in the initial stages of their career"

Notice it says "initial"?

, Hurry up and write your test's everyone!, there's a pot of gold waiting for each of you when you're done!

Sorry, could'nt resist, I'll sit down now,

Pat

HeavyD · Post by **HeavyD** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:41 am

See! 5-6K at start up!

I can't believe the schools spew out all this crap promising big wages when the truth, at least according to most of the posters on here, is exactly the opposite. Whever I think I should just sign up and try aviation I just get on this board and get a reality check from Pat and many others. I think I will try something with a better wage and less stress. From what I have read, even working on the railroad pays better than the average AME???

BTW, There is a Gov of Alberta Occupational Information website that has AME-S and AME-M video segments detailing how great each job is. If anyone is bored they are entertaining if nothing else.
http://www.alis.gov.ab.ca/video/

Pat Richard · Post by **Pat Richard** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:11 am

Forgot to add this in the prior post. This from the Burnaby, BC HRDC labour market report from last summer.

"Large percentage increases in claims for Aircraft Mechanics & Aircraft Inspectors (these rose by 81.6%) and Airline Sales And Service Agents (these increased by 78.6%), reflect the ongoing downturn in the airline industry."

Ongoing downturn???!!!, the hell you say!! The industry is BEGGING for people!!!

So I guess they don't see it as temporary.
Seeing that this comes from the people who see you first when you're out of work, I would tend say it's more accurate than what than the idiots at the schools are spewing out, and 81.6% is not number to be proud of.

There's also a wage comparison chart there to see how aviation currently stacks up, and it does'nt come to no $5-6k a month.

HeavyD · Post by **HeavyD** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:05 pm

Was on a classic truck website and noticed a fellow posted this depressing tidbit of information: "I'm 24, I went to community college to be an Aircraft Mechanic and I've never earned more than $15,000 Cdn in a year. (about $12,000 U.S.)" Maybe my math skills are lacking, but 15K a year doesn't equate to 5-6K a month to me...

The poster was from Mississauga (sp?) Ontario.

RL206 · Post by **RL206** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 10:49 am

Pat Richard is exactly on the bull's eye. I graduated from BCIT and I don't see the industry begging for AME 'M's. I did see that one company was hiring apprentice and experienced AME 'S's but from what I heard is that the place has a high turnover and they value you as much as those from the temporary labour agencies 'new age slave traders'. Still working at a place where the favorite sayings are "Would you like fries with that order? or Would younlike to super size that?". Hoping to one get a job where I can say, "Welcom to W_lmart and Thank you for shoppping at W_lmart, have a nice day.".

benchmark · Post by **benchmark** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 10:07 am

$29/hr??? SIGN ME UP!!

what a bunch of BS!! i'm not an aviation lifer...definitly getting out inside a year...go do something where i could at least have a chance to make $29/hr...i was disallusioned when i went into college as well...but now i know better

benchmark · Post by **benchmark** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 10:13 am

oh, and begging for ame's? rekindled some friendships from college over the last year, and looks like only about 1/2 my class even got jobs in aviation...the rest got lucky and found work elsewhere. where i am currently we always have engineers coming in looking for work...seems jobs are few and far between.

wha happen · Post by **wha happen** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:20 am

i see this BS is spread all through out aviaiton and not just on the pilot side. Beware the "shortage"!

gli77 · Post by **gli77** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:32 am

The story of your friends son who is making $100 000 / year in Montreal is probably true. I suspect he is working on contract to Bombardier, as I did, and I consistently made around $100 000 / year. Not everyone does this of course. Most people enter the industry and have no set goals or ambitions. They simply follow what ever path is provided to them. There are opportunities out there, and if you are willing to travel and go international then the skies the limit. And for those of you who don’t believe it check out flightinternational.com, look for ads that are looking for ICAO type II licences. In Canada Bombardier can be a good option, CAF aviation advertises on here for contract work, as well as aeropersonnel, Contract Aero Structures, and Maxwell Aerospace. MC2 in Toronto pays alright, and I have heard Spar in Edmonton pays well. CHC global has also advertised recently with a good rotational shift.

As for the schools tactics, smarten up people. Ever read an ad for a flight training outfit with the guy all dressed up in his pilot’s suit and promising the world. Or Universities promoting arts degree’s because we just don’t have enough lawyers or arts majors. The world is full of salesman. To say they are idiots is not quite true. The guy in Montreal is doing quite well. I’ve come across quite a few guys working in the oil and mineral exploration industries who are doing quite well. A good structures guy with a good reputation can make a lot of money. It’s not easy, but also take into account an AME has a two year college diploma. If you want a guaranteed six figure income then you had better be a degree’s engineer or a doctor. For that you will require much more education.

Standard rules of life, look out for yourself, and to each their own. If you are genuinely interested in being an AME check out all aspects of the industry. And take this into account; most of the negative posts on this site have the same names attached to them over and over. Could these be the bottom feeders that the industry trampled? See if you can get some more information from the guy making the 100 G’s. Since everyone else on this site is telling you how bad it is, go talk to the guy who has actually been successful.

Good luck to you whatever you decide.

Pat Richard · Post by **Pat Richard** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:32 pm

I was wondering where all the aviation hardons' where at...

I've been through all this before, especially with you, and could care less to resort to name calling and assinine comments, as you have, to contradict your ga ga version of aviation.

Adios, hero.

gli77 · Post by **gli77** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:40 pm

Sorry to offend you with success.

Vickers vanguard · Post by **Vickers vanguard** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:29 pm

gli77 wrote: There are opportunities out there, and if you are willing to travel and go international then the skies the limit. And for those of you who don’t believe it check out flightinternational.com, look for ads that are looking for ICAO type II licences..

very well said gli77, as you already know, I am seriously looking to take a position overseas....... the offer came from the VP engineering, and I was introduced to him by two of my friends( we went to the same flight school) who are flying for this oil company.
The irony in all this........the place I mentioned to you is where I was born and grew up.......I guess after all these years away, it is back to the origin.

gli77 · Post by **gli77** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:15 am

Good for you VV. But you should not post positive success, it upsets Pat Richard.

Pat Richard · Post by **Pat Richard** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:40 pm

My,my. Determined to get an argument going, are'nt we? Sorry, ain't biting.

Kinda lame shots though. My 7 yr old nephew comes up with better stuff...

gli77 · Post by **gli77** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:07 pm

Just the other side of the coin.

aero-singidunum · Post by **aero-singidunum** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 4:43 pm

It is hard to be in rught place on right time, if is help to all of you who looking for jobs in Europe, i did hear that there was need in Malta for licensed AME. (JAA/FAA needed).
It is a very nice pay in best clime in Mediterian. Nice schools, taxes i am not sure. No war (read nobody bombs nobody

) very good hospitals, Near Greese, Italy......

Schools say industry "Begging" for AME's???

Schools say industry "Begging" for AME's???

Instructor has his head up his a!!!

Wages