Annual inspection taking a really long time - options?

[DonutHole]

I watched a pinky engineer, super smart guy, wallet tighter that a ducks ass. A real know it all m-f-er.
Anyways, his strut was flat. He comes in and tries to take my nitrogen charge. Um, no I say. He proceeds to tell me I'm just a stupid ame blah blah blah. Goes to the boss and takes the nitrogen. I tell him a few times that nitrogen and batteries should be respected as they are dangerous.

Five minutes later the paramedics are on the field splinting his leg together... He should have bolted the torque link before charging.

It's always in the details. What scares me about enthusiastic owners is they don't know what they don't know and then we end up with broken legs and aluminum rain.

You've got your plane jacked up and you're going to remove a wheel..

What is the first thing you do?

[revr]

you missed the point,
pilots cant change tubes, I CAN.

Don't be ridiculous. Of course owners can change tubes, and authorize anyone else to do it for them (it doesn't have to be a pilot).

No they can't; it's not on the list of elementary work.

Nor is removing the split pin to take the wheel nut off, or re-torquing the wheel hub nuts. But both of those - along with replacing the tube - are needed in order to change the tire, which is on the list. So you can do those things too.


ok so what it comes down to is interpretation of the cars,
if you have a flat tire and need to replace the tube but the tire is ok can you legally do it?
one TC inspector may say yes and the other say no.
yes the cotter pin and torque are part of the task of changing the wheel I agree but tube replacement may be looked at like another task. why do the cars state that elementary maintenance includes replacement off tires and wheels than? you have to remove the wheel to change the tire?? why doesn't it just say tire replacement? when you deal with TC all the time you know that it is how they read the rules.
it seems like every area gets a new inspector every year or 2 now, than everything changes again, they all see things differently.

[photofly]

I'm not sure that TC currently has the resources to provide inspectors who care much about elementary work questions; at least I could never get hold of one.

Goes to the boss and takes the nitrogen....

Recharging a strut isn't on the list of elementary work (it is in the US equivalent though) - but then what if you have to discharge the strut to remove the wheel pant to remove the wheel, which is on the list

[iflyforpie]

Oh FFS... who cares? (comment directed to revr, not photofly) TC is so short of inspectors that you could do an engine overhaul yourself and nobody would care until the crash.

My interpretation of the CARs is that an owner can change a tire.. and do everything including jacking and shoring the aircraft, re + re the wheel fairings (which is covered under another Elementary Task), splitting and retorquing the brake caliper (provided they don't crack open any of the fittings), undoing and redoing the axle nut, safetying it, splitting the rim, replacing the tube and tire, reassembling the rim, and even repacking the wheel bearings which is technically under servicing.

I believe it does say... however... that Elementary Tasks must first be demonstrated to the pilot by an AME; they aren't things just to go ahead and do.

Recharging a strut is technically under Servicing I believe.

[DonutHole]

No but changing a tire is. Changing tires, struts, and batteries. Those are the big three. You can get hurt or killed dealing with this things.

You have a plane jacked up and you're going to remove the wheel. What is the first thing you do?

[photofly]

I believe it does say... however... that Elementary Tasks must first be demonstrated to the pilot by an AME;

For a commercial operation; but not for a private owner.

[iflyforpie]

Big plane with tubeless tire and 200PSI of nitrogen, I'd remove the valve core in case the rim bolts were sheared. Small plane with a tube tire and 30 psi... I wouldn't bother.

[iflyforpie]

I believe it does say... however... that Elementary Tasks must first be demonstrated to the pilot by an AME;

For a commercial operation; but not for a private owner.

That's why I said I believe.... too lazy to look up regs right now....

[DonutHole]

Big plane with tubeless tire and 200PSI of nitrogen, I'd remove the valve core in case the rim bolts were sheared. Small plane with a tube tire and 30 psi... I wouldn't bother.

I'd do whatever the manual says to do next.

I've seen a 172 wheel come apart. It's easy and safe to remove the nitrogen

[iflyforpie]

I don't think the manual is very specific in lots of cases. The Maule manual is smaller than most POH/AFMs.

[DonutHole]

I don't think the manual is very specific in lots of cases. The Maule manual is smaller than most POH/AFMs.

No you're right.

But you would check.

In a lot of ways that is why I like working on small ga aircraft. I did a stint in fling and Jesus. .. try reading a euro copter manual. Small ga is like 'engine broken... work on until fixed'

[Shiny Side Up]

The Maule manual is smaller than most POH/AFMs.

Calling it a manual is generous given its size. More like a manifesto or a pamphlet.

[Colonel Sanders]

Deleted.

[azimuthaviation]

You have a plane jacked up and you're going to remove the wheel. What is the first thing you do?

Get a coffee.

[Chris M]

You have a plane jacked up and you're going to remove the wheel. What is the first thing you do?

Get a coffee.

If you’re like most of the shade tree mechanics I’ve met you do one of two things: 1. Grab a coffee (or beer) and stare at the wheel, presumably waiting for divine inspiration or for the tire to change itself. Or 2. Attack the wheel with a repertoire of random tools, none of which is the right tool for the job in question and is just going to make a horrific mess that a real technician will have to sort out.

After jacking up the plane my next step would be to make sure the plane can’t leave the jack on its own. I will freely admit that I have a negligible amount of experience working on aircraft, but a lot of experience in the automotive world. The logic of not working on an unsecured machine should be universal. Chock the wheels and engage whatever safety lock the jack has. I’ve seen the result of jack failure and nearly been hurt very badly by it. Not something I take lightly.

[Shiny Side Up]

You have a plane jacked up and you're going to remove the wheel. What is the first thing you do?

Get a coffee.

Amateur. The correct answer is have someone get you a coffee.

[DonutHole]

You have a plane jacked up and you're going to remove the wheel. What is the first thing you do?

Get a coffee.

Amateur. The correct answer is have someone get you a coffee.

That's the real reason we let owners assist us. After we point out the turbo encabulator and flux capacitor their learning for the day is done and they can be relegated to coffee bitch duties.

Chris: Good answer, but the one Im looking for out of an owner I am going to let do work on his aircraft which I will be signing out would be 'whatever the manual says next'

[photofly]

Chris: Good answer, but the one Im looking for out of an owner I am going to let do work on his aircraft which I will be signing out would be 'whatever the manual says next'

I was actually going to say that, but I figured that would be too easy. I even read up on it.

a. Hoist or jack aircraft as outlined Section 2
b. Remove speed fairing, if installed, in accordance with paragraph 5-11
c. Remove hub cap, cotter pin and axle nut
d. Remove bolts and washers attaching back plate to brake cylinder and remove back plate
e. Pull wheel from axle

[brownbear]

These stupid numbers that 95% of AMEs are either crooks or incompetent are fawked.

That is one BS comment coming from a view of a private owner experience. Some people think everyone is out for them..

The reality is that most AMEs work for companies and maintain fleets of aircraft. They vary in skill and years on the job. Very few are incompetent. None are crooks any more then general population.

AME's that are dealing with private owners for their source of income are not the majority of AMEs. So 95% is very stupid remark.

The general problem is AME's are not respected across the board of aircraft type by pilots. In private aircraft the owners(pilots) think they know everything about their planes and therefor might assume the AMEs are up to no good.. In charter companies or airlines the AMEs don't put up with the pilots nonsense and usually don't sit together at the bar. Bad blood is bad blood.

Not that there is a real number but if there was the majority of AMEs and Pilots just don't see eye to eye that's the real issue.

[Colonel Sanders]

Very few are incompetent

Check out the "337 electrical problem" thread
from 2 days ago.

AME changed both alternators, both voltage
regulators, overvoltage relay, etc and problem
remained.

Problem was a bad connection.

[iflyforpie]

I'd bet $10 it was the owner who wanted the AME to change components to get the plane in the air faster, rather than paying an AME $100/hr to go through wiring and clean connections.

[DonutHole]

Any of that old crap, charging problems are usually corroded connections at the voltage regulator.

For the owners.

High resistance on your field connection will do what to the regulation of voltage?

[Colonel Sanders]

High resistance on your field connection will do what to the regulation of voltage?

It will cause a voltage drop between the external
regulator and the alternator, resulting in a reduced
output from the alternator.

This will cause the voltage regulator to increase
the voltage to the field. If the resistance on the
field connection is high enough, even with the
regulator asking for max amperage by driving
the field to maximum voltage, the alternator
may only output reduced amperage and be
unable to maintain the system voltage, resulting
in a steady drain on the battery.

How fast the battery discharges will be a function
of the total system load, the amp-hour rating of
the battery, and it's condition.

If you have any more questions about electrical
systems, go ahead and I'll try to help you. Or
email Mike Busch - I think he has a Master's
degree in Mathematics.

[azimuthaviation]

I'd bet $10 it was the owner who wanted the AME to change components to get the plane in the air faster, rather than paying an AME $100/hr to go through wiring and clean connections.

The original poster said that was a long term problem that has carried along through subsequent owners. Troubleshooting is a very weak skill Ive noticed in the field. Even Colonel Sanders shouldnt throw stones, some of his answers to snags people pose on here seem to come out of left field. I wouldnt want to pay him $100 an hour to troubleshoot a system.

[Colonel Sanders]

I wouldnt want to pay him $100 an hour

No problem - there are plenty of other people
who are eager to pay me a lot more than that.