May 1 startup day Air Georgian

[Krimson]

A job is only worth what the market is willing to pay for it. Unfortunately our market (our profession) is on a downward trend and we are seeing times get worse than ever before. It is not individual pilots who are lowering the market value of a pilot, but the CEOs who are running all the plays causing arguments between pilot groups, allowing them to run the show in the background while we are out here calling others scabs. If no one took the jobs, the airplanes would still be flying via other means. Other schemes would be hatched and we would all be arguing over those instead while we're all seeing our paycheques shrink over time.

The only chance we have to stop this "race" is to join together and not just look to place blame. It's pretty easy to be sitting in a good position blaming everyone else, but that accomplishes nothing. One union/college/etc is required, but unfortunately I do not see happening for many years.

[justwork]

The efforts and work of the collective agreements of the past are not in question however collective agreements only apply within. An overarching industry standard is required, it will either be detetmined by the "old guard" or the "young blood"; act or get acted upon, your choice.

The College of Professional Pilot of Canada with the support of both "old guard" and "young blood" needs to stand up and be heard. This is where our efforts need to be not arguing, backstabing and pointing fingrers amongst ourselves, thats what got us to this state.

Yes, I am a member #0209

Mapleflt

+1 from me. CPPC member# 0600

+2 from me. CPPC member# 0026

[volez]

What has the college done so far to foster pilots to join ?

[TGale]

It's a beginning. And from beginnings grow great things.

[rxl]

The very first thing that I posted in this thread was my agreement that the GGN pilots who were on the property prior to the start up of the RJ venture truly are unwilling victims. They were sold down the river by their leadership.

Respect and unity is what's needed right now.
Hopefully the College will develop that unity and will open up the communications necessary to foster mutual respect for each other and for each other's career.

[davecessna]

It is sad. From what I hear it's a real s*%@ show over at GGN right now. Interesting to see how it all plays out. If pilots said no to this crap it would stop tomorrow. Of course that won't happen.

Unfortunately, low-time pilots don't really have much leverage given their supply is so much greater than demand.

I guess economics 101 wasn't an overly subscribed class for many on these forums.

You shouldn't need to take a 100-level course to understand supply & demand, professor.

the airplanes would still be flying via other means.

Nail on the head, kimosabe.

[SOBIESKI]

http://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/2/c ... d2014O0869

[nottellin]

Why is that not national news??
An airplane blows a tire and it usually makes headlines.

[rooster]

What are the GGN and SKY pilot groups doing to enhance pilot unity?

Ask a GGN pilot if the c scale or 705 pay scale was voted in. Now ask them if their raises and per diems were as significant because they voted no at that very expense, for future pilots who came in after ratification.

You should then have part of your question answered.

So, what exactly are you doing rxl, to enhance pilot unity? Criticizing other pilot groups on avcanada? Cause that's all you seem to be doing. There are some stand up guys working there and you're ostracizing them while questioning what they are doing to unify pilot groups. Smarten up.

[BingBong]

Sorry, the "pilots who voted no" line is complete bull. High fives for voting no...at least it's a start. However to then raise your hand for an RJ seat....sorry scumbag you've been painted.


Remember boys, don't pick at it or it will bleed

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Guys and Gals,

How about we stop fighting each other and attempt something united to stop this ever ending race to the bottom ?

Ideas anyone ? Ideas that do not involve attacking other pilots but rather those behind these policies ?

[Inverted2]

A week in and things aren't getting any better. AC is doing all the YYG flights and Jazz is doing half the other flights. Even the B1900 flights are delayed. Anyone who wants to go there now must be hanging out with Rob Ford. I'd be ashamed to work for this clown show.

[Duffman]

A week in and things aren't getting any better. AC is doing all the YYG flights and Jazz is doing half the other flights. Even the B1900 flights are delayed. Anyone who wants to go there now must be hanging out with Rob Ford. I'd be ashamed to work for this clown show.

I hope somewhere at AC they are adding up the cost of running a 319 instead of Georgian's RJ and wondering if this whole thing is really worth it. Probably not though.

[BingBong]

Guys and Gals,

How about we stop fighting each other and attempt something united to stop this ever ending race to the bottom ?

Ideas anyone ? Ideas that do not involve attacking other pilots but rather those behind these policies ?

http://www.alpa.org/AboutALPA/JoinALPA/ ... fault.aspx

[zulutime]

A week in and things aren't getting any better. AC is doing all the YYG flights and Jazz is doing half the other flights. Even the B1900 flights are delayed. Anyone who wants to go there now must be hanging out with Rob Ford. I'd be ashamed to work for this clown show.

Constructive critism is one thing. What you spew is simply disdain. If you can't be constructive why choose to be destructive? Stay off your keypad. It only makes you look foolish.

[rxl]

Rooster,

As a Jazz pilot, it's pretty tough to just sit back in silent frustration as the work that you have done for many years is sold off to the lowest bidder with no real end in sight to that sale.
You are absolutely correct, frustration needs to be properly directed.

This is a great career, and it's a career that's worth fighting for.
We have to work together and take it back from the MBA's.

rxl

[Inverted2]

A week in and things aren't getting any better. AC is doing all the YYG flights and Jazz is doing half the other flights. Even the B1900 flights are delayed. Anyone who wants to go there now must be hanging out with Rob Ford. I'd be ashamed to work for this clown show.

Constructive critism is one thing. What you spew is simply disdain. If you can't be constructive why choose to be destructive? Stay off your keypad. It only makes you look foolish.

Excuse me? Perhaps you should check the flight status on the Air Canada website or if you are in Terminal 1 at YYZ go look at a flight information screens. Nothing I said was untrue.

[AllClutch]

Why would a Jazz pilot or any other pilot worried about the integrity of the industry offer constructive criticism?
Zulutime, Would you offer your wife's lover tips on how to get her in bed?

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Guys and Gals,

How about we stop fighting each other and attempt something united to stop this ever ending race to the bottom ?

Ideas anyone ? Ideas that do not involve attacking other pilots but rather those behind these policies ?

http://www.alpa.org/AboutALPA/JoinALPA/ ... fault.aspx

Are you referring to the same ALPA that knows that the Foreign Licence Validations that Transport Canada issues to Foreign licenced pilots to do revenue flying in Canada under Part VII are illegal but that wont do anything about it in fear of upsetting the good relationship it has with top brass at Transport ? That ALPA ? They are going to save our profession ? Don't hold your breath.

[Inverted2]

Also the same ALPA that doesn't want anything to do with adding any more small Canadian companies like GGN or SKY because it isn't financially lucrative enough.

[tbaylx]

Guys and Gals,

How about we stop fighting each other and attempt something united to stop this ever ending race to the bottom ?

Ideas anyone ? Ideas that do not involve attacking other pilots but rather those behind these policies ?

http://www.alpa.org/AboutALPA/JoinALPA/ ... fault.aspx

Are you referring to the same ALPA that knows that the Foreign Licence Validations that Transport Canada issues to Foreign licenced pilots to do revenue flying in Canada under Part VII are illegal but that wont do anything about it in fear of upsetting the good relationship it has with top brass at Transport ? That ALPA ? They are going to save our profession ? Don't hold your breath.

While the TFW program is an important issue to get dealt with, it's certainly not the most important one. I'm not sure pissing in everyone's cornflakes and then rubbing their noses in it in the press is the best way to go about doing things either.

ALPA has been doing this a long time and knows that sometimes you have to be subtle to get things done as opposed to a bulldozer.

No one at ALPA Canada thinks that the TFW isn't something that needs to be dealt with, they just disagree with the current method of getting it done considering the road blocks its throwing up on all the other issues. It's much easier to get things through government if you have a sympathetic ear and a working relationship. If you blow that by making the politicians look bad, then you aren't going to get much help on anything in the future, something that ALPA realizes.

[Big Pistons Forever]

ALPA has been doing this a long time and knows that sometimes you have to be subtle to get things done as opposed to a bulldozer.

No one at ALPA Canada thinks that the TFW isn't something that needs to be dealt with, they just disagree with the current method of getting it done considering the road blocks its throwing up on all the other issues. It's much easier to get things through government if you have a sympathetic ear and a working relationship. If you blow that by making the politicians look bad, then you aren't going to get much help on anything in the future, something that ALPA realizes.

Politicians have no memory and no loyalty. They only care when the squeaky wheels get enough attention that doing something is going to be more advantageous to their personal political interests than ignoring the issue. If any senior ALPA official actually believes that they have a "sympathetic ear" ear with the politicians because they didn't make waves, then they are so totally clueless on how things work in the real world, they are unfit for office.

[Koalemos]

Rooster,

As a Jazz pilot, it's pretty tough to just sit back in silent frustration as the work that you have done for many years is sold off to the lowest bidder with no real end in sight to that sale.
You are absolutely correct, frustration needs to be properly directed.

This is a great career, and it's a career that's worth fighting for.
We have to work together and take it back from the MBA's.

rxl

That's certainly reasonable and I think well appreciated RXL. Unfortunately, I don't see it getting better any time soon. The fact is GGN now has access to classic Dashes through the R1 merger, and its on their AOC I believe. It's going to get worse before it gets better, I'm afraid. From talking to some of the GGN pilots, I can guarantee you that if they had a better way out, they wouldn't be working there (and no quitting without a parachute isn't an option, for some reason they think watching their kids starve and getting kicked out of their houses is bad). There's a reason their turn over rate is ridiculous, the majority don't show up for sim eval/ground school, and they are chronically under staffed.

If you want to get mad at anyone, try AC Mainline for pushing the low cost regional model. If it wasn't Sky and GGN, it would be someone else, that I can guarantee you. I don't see ACPA or ALPA protesting too loudly or working towards a solution during this whole process either. Its an industry problem decades in the making, tarring and feathering the regional pilots will do exactly nothing. AC management simply doesn't care about anything other than $$$ (and giving themselves multi million dollar bonuses while destroying employee lives).

[rooster]

Rooster,

As a Jazz pilot, it's pretty tough to just sit back in silent frustration as the work that you have done for many years is sold off to the lowest bidder with no real end in sight to that sale.
You are absolutely correct, frustration needs to be properly directed.

This is a great career, and it's a career that's worth fighting for.
We have to work together and take it back from the MBA's.

rxl

I can understand that and your groups frustration. However there is a very wrong and discriminatory and judgemental view going on here that GGN pilots are scabs and scum. It's a crying shame because they did a lot to prevent the future generations from stepping into worse conditions. They were offered incentives to vote yes to the company's first few offers that included lesser working conditions and wages. The group voted no. When work, jobs and whatever else on the table was threatened, the group basically banded together and said "do what you need to do, but we won't vote in a c scale or this 705 pay scale".

It's been said over and over but the 705 pay is in place thanks to their union 'leader' who signed an Lou behind the groups backs. Speaking with a few of their yyz pilots, he is despised by many.

I just get sick of you pilots at better companies looking down at other pilot groups calling them scabs and scum and going as far as wishing ill will.

I think they at least deserve better than what you're all giving them.

There is no unity amongst pilots. So why bother preaching about it. Every man for himself right?

[Localizer]

Folks,

If you truly love this industry and you want to make significant change then here is my advice, if you are an AC, ACJ, Sky, or GGN/EVAS pilot, our MEC or association leaders should be in one room coming up with one list. The college is too far behind to achieve this, but our unions/associations are not. Will it be perfect? No, but will it stop the downward trend? If done right yes, I believe it will, so lobby your LEC and MEC chairs that we need to stick together.

"Together we stand, divided we fall" enough said.

Cheers, Loc