American Eagle (Envoy) Shrinking by Almost Half

[DHC-1 Jockey]

http://blogs.star-telegram.com/sky_talk ... ilots.html

And the race to the bottom continues. This is why I worry about the future at Jazz. If we don't take concessions in the next round, what's to keep AC from giving more or all of the flying to SR and GGN?

[sstaurus]

Hopefully, said 'other airline' they want to transfer the planes to would also refuse to fly the planes for poverty-level wages (in an ideal world). Then AA would be left with egg on their face.

[Mig29]

difference between here and US is that there are a lot more pilots and regionals willing to work for less and undercut the other guy. We are "lucky" that there are not enough of us here in Canada who can pick instantaneously the amount of flying Jazz does daily. AC can give more, sure, but not everything at once. Maybe over a period of 5 years....

[DHC-1 Jockey]

We are "lucky" that there are not enough of us here in Canada who can pick instantaneously the amount of flying Jazz does daily.

Well as the article said, they are looking at giving 20 new aircraft to a new carrier that can accept deliveries next year and another 20 to a separate carrier sometime after that. While it's not instantaneous, that's a big blow to an airline in only two short years. Substitute "Envoy" for "Jazz" and it could be the future here in Canada as pilots undercut each other to work for poverty wages.

Hopefully, said 'other airline' they want to transfer the planes to would also refuse to fly the planes for poverty-level wages (in an ideal world). Then AA would be left with egg on their face.

We can only hope!

[TGale]

Is it really just the pilots' pay that is the sole source of the airlines profits?

[Big Pistons Forever]

Up to now the US majors have been very successful whipsawing the regionals against one another. Wages could be pushed down because there were plenty of 250 hr wannabes from the college puppy mills who were blinded by SJS and would work for any wage.

But the recent enactment of the requirement that Airline FO,s have to have ATPL has instantly changed the pilot supply. Personally I think the regional airline execs are so short term focused that they have not thought through what happens when the new jets show up and they don't have enough pilots to fly them. All of the possible alternative regional airlines that could take the envoy aircraft are already having trouble manning what they already have and some are already parking aircraft due to lack of crew. So where are they going to get the hundreds of new pilots to fly all of envoys machines ?

From what I can see the execs are just using the WAPTAMO method of planning.

I hope the envoy guys hang on as I bet within a year or two they will have all their aircraft back when their bottom feeding shithole competitors crash and burn after they get killed with non perform penalties because they don't have the crew to meet the sched.

[flyer 1492]

I bet that the Executives are hoping to hire the laid off pilots at Envoy (at a reduced salary) to crew the "new" machines. Thus the cycle continues...The executive's at GGN were hoping to capitalize on hiring down graded or VSP pilots from Jazz to operate their "new" machines, I wonder how that worked...

[Big Pistons Forever]

I bet that the Executives are hoping to hire the laid off pilots at Envoy (at a reduced salary) to crew the "new" machines. Thus the cycle continues.

The envoy guys refused to take a big pay cut even though they were told American was going to punish them by taking away work. I don't think after that too many envoy guys are going to be interested in taking a huge pay cut and starting at the bottom of the seniority list at a much crappier outfit than envoy.

Also the US majors are hiring again, potentially 500 this year alone, so now the regional have to start replacing pilots that have moved up to the majors. This is combined with the trend that many guys/gals are going overseas or just getting out of aviation altogether because it it is such a crap deal to work for a regional now. To get them back WAWCONs are going to have to improve big time and like I said the MBA bean counter whizz kids "running" these airlines don't have a clue. WAPTAMO

[North Shore]

What's WAPTAMO?

[Big Pistons Forever]

WAPTAMO = Wish Away The Problem Then A Miracle Occurs

[fish4life]

Projected retiring has American Airlines losing 2/3rds of there mainline pilots from 2018-2028 if I remember right which is great news for pilots down there and will hurt the regionals trying to hire if they don't raise wages

[dashx]

Republic Airways.

[Mach1]

Is it really just the pilots' pay that is the sole source of the airlines profits?

No. (More later)

But a little quick math says...

Cut 1,000 pilots wages by 10,000/year and I save the company 10,000,000 dollars. Yay me! I give me a 5,000,000 bonus for saving the company all that money and the company keeps 5,000,000 dollars; I'm a hero. (No one will ever look at the loss of revenue associated with high rates of staff turnover, increased training costs, loss of business due to lack of staff to get the job done or damage done by low morale)

Later, I will get fired (possibly quit), collect my several million dollar severance pay and (unlike any other job you or I have ever had) this firing will help you get your next job where you will be paid a several million dollar signing bonus... all while leaving the employees and my replacement to deal with the damage done by my 'leadership'... and sometimes driving the company into bankruptcy.

Repeat every 5 years.

Oh yes, and the workers of the world will actually argue that we have to pay executives this much money to get the 'best' guys for the job while these same workers continue to see their own compensation decreased every year.

So Gale, the answer to your question is a basic no... but the more you have the less they have... and the less you get the more they get. It's less about the companies profits and more about the personal profits of the executives.

[sstaurus]

^ ^ Yes, it's hilarious how people can think of any reason or excuse that these CEOs are worth what they're paid... The 'best' my a$$. It's an exclusive club of mostly old white men that get each other hired.

[TGale]

Is it really just the pilots' pay that is the sole source of the airlines profits?

So Gale, the answer to your question is a basic no... but the more you have the less they have... and the less you get the more they get. It's less about the companies profits and more about the personal profits of the executives.

[YYCDavid]

Although I'm not a supporter of reduction in pay by any means, I would still go work for them compared to our options here in Canada. As a pilot I was born on the wrong side of the border. Just think for all those years you could go from flight school to a RJ or ATR in a regional of a major and not have to toil on the ramp hoping to get a flying job for peanuts and only to be treated like a monkey trying to get to a 705 in Canada.

[Mig29]

On the same note, Dave you'd be better off if you were born across the other side of Atlantic, where guys jump to even bigger machines after couple of hundred of hours instructing in a 172 . But hey, that's how it goes in life sometimes..

By the way, Mach1 huge plus from me on your short speech!

[rjonno]

The question is, will they be able to find somebody who can crew that flying. They may be able to find somebody willing to do it for $5 less per credit hour, but will they find the crews? With the new 1500tt rule for Part 121 operators and the ever increasing vacuum at the top end due to retirements at the majors, something has to give. Hopefully that means wages rising on the bottom end.

Telling mgmt to stuff it was the best thing Envoy pilots could have done. Now, will their colleagues at the competition do the same? Fingers crossed.

[HiLo]

Any possibility that the US regionals will start to sponsor foreign pilots?

[rocket81]

Any possibility that the US regionals will start to sponsor foreign pilots?

US workers will never accept that but they are fighting against foreign low cost airline very strongly at that moment. http://pilotpartisan.com/2014/06/10/why ... g-the-law/

['97 Tercel]

Depends if the Republicans win the next election