" I've been Rouged " Brilliant marketing!

[corky]

Looks like things with travellers is about to get interesting with Air Canada and race to the bottom Rouge.

Maybe the writing is on the wall, travellers are not going to subscribe to a Rouge type Airline? There are other options. Once you loose your customers good luck getting them back.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c ... -1.2633845

Obviously no reflection on the crews and staff who tow the line.

Cheers
Corky

[Shibby]

Heard some of their pilots call it "Air Canada Rogue"

How long till the media picks that up?

[Krimson]

"The name of your brand is in the lexicon as being a term for being ripped off? Boy! That would be the kiss of death for any brand name I can think of."

[sstaurus]

All this social media is really biting companies in the rear... Can't get away with anything these days Which is a good thing for consumers!

[verybadman]

Right....?

WestJet, Sunwing, AT and CanJet (my emp) and alike have been doing the low cost thing for years, all known for tight seating, no frills and basic low cost model service and as soon as Air Canada joins in the mix they're the bad guy.

I bought a confirmed flights on rouge last month to the south and it was great. Very we'll priced and service was the best hands down in Canada beating all. It's not even a race, others had better take notice because they've got customer service figured out. Price point all the same, I'd fly rouge any day over any other Canadian carrier to the south no question.

It wouldn't matter what AC did, someone is gonna get a hate on for them even though AC has likely the freshest approach to low cost in years with a real concern for customer service and turn a new leaf. ...Toronto-Venice one way $179 plus taxes was advertised last week and some idiot will undoubtedly find reason to complain.

[Genetk44]

Right....?

WestJet, Sunwing, AT and CanJet (my emp) and alike have been doing the low cost thing for years, all known for tight seating, no frills and basic low cost model service and as soon as Air Canada joins in the mix they're the bad guy.

I bought a confirmed flights on rouge last month to the south and it was great. Very we'll priced and service was the best hands down in Canada beating all. It's not even a race, others had better take notice because they've got customer service figured out. Price point all the same, I'd fly rouge any day over any other Canadian carrier to the south no question.

It wouldn't matter what AC did, someone is gonna get a hate on for them even though AC has likely the freshest approach to low cost in years with a real concern for customer service and turn a new leaf. ...Toronto-Venice one way $179 plus taxes was advertised last week and some idiot will undoubtedly find reason to complain.

I actually have always had very good service on Air Canada....they are my preffered airline.
But I have no liking for the Rouge product at all. With the type of seats and the size of the seats and the lousy seat pitch/legroom I don't care how cheap the ticket might be, and so far my experience is that the tickets are no cheaper than mainline Air Canada were,especially for any flight over 3 hours.....and being 6ft. 3 inches tall an 8 hour Rouge flight to Venice would leave me crippled. Quite frankly on most of the routes I fly Air Canada has completely pulled their mainline product in favour of their Rouge product so my choice is limited to Rouge, WJ or a Foriegn carrier......and I am pi**ed at Air Canada for not at least giving me the choice of their mainline product or Rouge.....guess I'll be using foriegn carriers from now on.

[tbaylx]

Right....?

WestJet, Sunwing, AT and CanJet (my emp) and alike have been doing the low cost thing for years, all known for tight seating, no frills and basic low cost model service and as soon as Air Canada joins in the mix they're the bad guy.

I bought a confirmed flights on rouge last month to the south and it was great. Very we'll priced and service was the best hands down in Canada beating all. It's not even a race, others had better take notice because they've got customer service figured out. Price point all the same, I'd fly rouge any day over any other Canadian carrier to the south no question.

It wouldn't matter what AC did, someone is gonna get a hate on for them even though AC has likely the freshest approach to low cost in years with a real concern for customer service and turn a new leaf. ...Toronto-Venice one way $179 plus taxes was advertised last week and some idiot will undoubtedly find reason to complain.

The issue is the guy bought a ticket on mainline and got a Rouge flight. I'd be pissed too if i paid for one product and got another, lesser one with 4 inches or so less seat pitch. You'd likely have a pretty good court case if you chose to pursue that.

[705dreamer]

The new seats at Rouge are for sure smaller than the minline. However, still way more comfortable and more legroom than a Westjet seat. Haven't flown Sunwing yet so can't comment on them but out of Air Canada, Rouge, Westjet and Transat, Westjet is the worst followed not to far by Transat.

[Giggidy]

Slightly different opinion here.

I've flown Westjet, Sunwing etc in the past.....Then I flew down to MBJ on an Air Canada mainline flight last year and decided the extra legroom + far superior IFE was worth the extra I paid. Air Canada was now my preferred carrier out of YYZ for vacation (and business) flying.

Then they swapped Rouge onto their Caribbean routes. For me, there is now no difference between AC, Westjet, Sunwing, or Transat for vacation flying. Why would I stay loyal to Air Canada if they've reduced the service level to be on par with, or worse than the competition? Might as well go with the cheapest option....at least Sunwing has free food and a shot glass of Prosecco.

I'm now off to MBJ again....on Transa.....uhh Canjet. Sunwing was fully booked for the dates I wanted.


I'm probably in a minority, but AC has lost my business because of this.

[Troubleshot]

Flew Rouge to Orlando in April. Staff were friendly, the seat pitch was absolutely horrid. No air conditioning while taxiing or on the gate.

Need an App for IFE on rouge.

[Genetk44]

The new seats at Rouge are for sure smaller than the minline. However, still way more comfortable and more legroom than a Westjet seat. Haven't flown Sunwing yet so can't comment on them but out of Air Canada, Rouge, Westjet and Transat, Westjet is the worst followed not to far by Transat.

Dreamer....you are the first person out of over 500 reviews/comparisons that I have read about Rouge that claims Westjet is the worst of the 4 airlines you have listed....virtually 99% claim Rouge is the worst followed by either Transat or Westjet depending on the individuals experiences. I haven't flown Westjet or Transat but I'm not impressed with Rouge compared to mainline AC. They are a huge step down compared to AC with no appreciable cost savings.

[705dreamer]

Of course peole are going to say that Rouge is the worst because they are comparing it to the mainline which is by far a superior product to that of any other Canadian airline. I was pleasantly suprised with Rouge and will travel with them again. Service was great and seat was comfortable. Just no leg room. 1/2 hr in a Westjet seat and it starts getting painful. 4 1/2 on Rouge and I was fine. Plus, you didn't have to listen to any stupid jokes or singing over the PA. Westjet is last Canadian carrier I will fly with!

[Genetk44]

Well considering that there was no real difference in price between mainline Air Canada and Rouge on the route I flew, and the great majority of people are finding the same thing btw I see no contradiction in comparing the Rouge product to mainline Air Canada.....at least with Westjet or Airtransat you get some cost savings for your pain.

I have to say that the Rouge seats are terrible imho....very thin padding...to the point I had to change positions every 10-15 minutes to ease the discomfort on my butt, plus no lumbar support so its bad on the back...and enough has been said on the internet about the appallingly cruel legroom situation.

You are entitled to your opinion...and if you like the Rouge product and think its worth the price you pay then good on ya...but I will not use them again.....and quite frankly I don't trust mainline Air Canada anymore so I'll always look for alternitives from now on.

[TheStig]

They are a huge step down compared to AC with no appreciable cost savings.

But there was a cost savings...

You have to realize what rouge is and what it isn't. What it isn't is Air Canada, IMHO the airline has failed to inform rouge passengers that they are being sold a different product. rouge has been targeting markets that are deemed primarily leisure destinations which are more price sensitive. If I'd purchased a ticket on a mainline flight and the route was later changed to rouge I'd certainly be disappointed. If I thought I was booking on mainline with out realizing what I was actually getting well I'd probably be disappointed too...

The airline, however, has maintained that it was simply uncompetitive and both loosing the market and money serving these routes with WJ's and AT's expansion used as justification. If you want to argue that point sure go ahead, what do they know about the airline industry? However, just for a minute consider this to be true, and ask yourself, why would a business provide a 'better' (mainline) product to a market that wasn't willing to pay for what was being provided? How come Facebook and Twitter weren't saturated with comments thanking Air Canada's shareholders for bankrolling a money loosing venture to provide them with a product they weren't willing to pay for?!?!

The term LCC has evolved over the last couple decades to the point where today it is really nothing more than a marketing buzz word used to give passengers the impression that they are saving money, while lowering their expectations.

"Low cost" refers to the bills the airline has to pay, not what you're paying for your seat. The reality is that airlines are going to set their fares as high as the market will allow. If you're willing to pay the same airfare for a product that is cheaper to provide rouge will be a success. If passengers decide they've been cheated and look for other options, or the airfares being charged aren't worth the product being offered, sales will sag and prices will fall.

Apparently Air Canada feels they are not watering down the mainline brand selling tickets on the same website or they have enough loyalty through their aeroplan customer base. Everyone know that bringing rouge to the market represents a huge gamble for Air Canada.

One final point to consider is the fact that the baby boomer businessmen of today are going to be tomorrow's retirees travelling the world, and this shift in North American demographics has made a strong enough business case for AC to risk it's enviable RASM.

[Genetk44]

I understand all the points you make Stig...and I can't argue the merits about Air Canadas choice to setup the Rouge product in relation to their markets or the competition...besides I don't care what their rationale or justifications are...as somebody who is an experienced flying passenger for almost 50 years, mostly with AC,I'm only interested in the safety,comfort and convenience of the product I buy from the airline....Rouge does not meet my criteria so I will not use them. As for Air Canada, considering the way they have handled the whole situation and their comments to date...I no longer trust them nor feel very much like giving them my money at this point. I will vote with my cash.
BTW...I'm not so sure Air Canada is going to restrict the Rouge product only to "liesure or vacation " destinations.....

Flights operated by AC Rouge

YYZ to USA
MCO TPA LAS SRQ SAN PHX

YYZ to Mexico
CUN PVR

YYZ to Caribbean
SJD KIN BGI PUJ POP CCC LRM HOG SNU NAS LIR GND MBJ CUR GTU SJO SKB AZS VRA HUX

YYZ to Europe
DUB ATH BCN EDI VCE MAN LIS

YUL to USA
LAS MCO

YUL to Mexico
CUN

YUL to Caribbean
ZSA CCC HOG PUJ SNU PLS PAP

YUL to Europe
FCO ATH BCN NCE

YYC to USA
LAS LAX PHX (17 Dec)

YVR to USA
ANC LAS LAX SFO (1 Jul) PHX (17 Dec)

What to Do If Your Flight Has Been Rouged According to the AC Rep "Air Canada Altitude": call AC Reservations, cancel and get a refund.

[Old fella]

Stig, if I may. Referencing Rouge I believe it is a perception from the general flying public in that they equate LCC or “leisure” as AC says as flying on a smaller/different/another aircraft. They(public) have a hard time seeing Rouge as flying the same aircraft types as mainline Air Canada without the connotation” but where is my savings” hence I have been “rouged”. It is well beyond/over my head to figure out the business/marketing reasons for Rouge but if the general population feels it is getting “rouged” well that could be very damaging to that particular product - fairly or unfairly. On that CBC article I do take it with 50 grains of salt about seat discomfort, I mean haven’t they flown on a Q400, CRJ-200 or a DHC-8 100/300 – dare I mention a B1900. Nuff said!

I have never flown with Rouge but my daughter and her mate did.It was from YYZ to Cancun return, I asked them, they thought the service good, had no issues, got them to their destinations down and back. I suppose in this day and age in aviation airline world that is about as much as you can expect.

[Genetk44]

Old Fella.....all excellent points. Of course I'm pretty sure the average traveller and certainly the experienced business or liesure traveller doesn't expect the same kind of space/legroom on a CRJ or a B1900 as on a A319 or a 767 or vice-versa, I certainly don't. Besides which what commercial operation is flying CJs on 4 or 5 hour flights to Barbados from Toronto and even if they were you'd be hearing the same complaints .

[Old fella]

Genetk44....... yes your points are so true, what airline does utilize CRJ-200, Q400 etc on 4-5 hr trips(outside of range questions). I am 5' 8" and a bit, weigh in at 175lbs so probably fall somewhere into the average male size so I look at it in that prospective and can fit with some degree of comfort into whatever, however males over 6ft and above 200lbs can/are in a difficult position when it comes to comfort on an extended trip no doubt about that, unless they are in a B777/767/A330 etc. So what can one really say...........

Cheers

[Genetk44]

Lolol...unfortunately I'm one of those 6'4 tall 220lbs males.....hence I always buy business class ......of course I do take a B1900 commuter flight quite regularely....but its literally a 20 minute flight that costs $70 each way....its not a problem.

[verybadman]

Truth is, rouge is no better or worse than WJ or SW or AT. The traveling public is only faithful to their pocketbook. 90% or better will choose the airline that suits them at the time of booking based on fare...even though today they rant about rouge but would book with them next trip if they'll save $10.

Rouge is the new kid on the block and they're easy to pick on, and Canada loves to complain about Air Canada even though they are only doing exactly what the competition is doing.

[JBI]

We got switched to Rouge for our flight to LAX at the end of this month so we'll see how it goes. Curious to see the product. We booked on Aeroplan points, so we're not too fussed. Had we booked a regular mainline fare only to be switched, I'd be annoyed.

I don't blame AC for switching many of their leisure routes to Rouge, especially the shorter ones. I think the market is pretty clear that the vast majority of pax will only look at the fare price and if one airline is $6.35 cheaper, they'll book that fare (regardless of in flight service). I will pay more for some better in flight service, but there's a limit (hence taking Allegiant's party bus to Vegas out of Bellingham a couple months ago. We saved over $700 for two of us flying out of Bellingham).

Just don't get me started about the HD 777s...

[Mig29]

so fast forward less then a year, and AC Rouge is growing like the company predicted it will. It is becoming bigger while the mainline is shrinking.....reminds me of another airline in Australia who did the same. The only difference (so far) is that they are not outsourcing foreign crews in Asia to fly their planes for half the cost.

Rouge did say it will do Caribbean and leisure only destinations in Europe. But LAX is now joining the network. I remember some pilots said last year that there are special protections put in place in the contract preventing possible "over intrusion" of Rouge in mainline's network. LAX is the first example where this proves to be not the case.

How did the company get around it and how did union failed to prevent this? And the follow up question is what is going to stop them from doing more of this?

I'm not being sarcastic here....just hoping someone has an explanation, that's all.

[confuzed]

Mig29 and Genetk44:

The last time I checked, all of the destinations that you both put down are considered leisure/vacation destinations. LAX is also flown by Sunwing, and all the others listed are flown by both Transat and Sunwing. The Atlantic flying are also leisure destinations that are flown by Transat seasonally. I haven't seen a case yet of Rouge impeding on the mainline flying.

[Rogerdodger2]

"Not impeding on mainline flying" ???

IT ALL USED TO BE MAINLINE FLYING!!!!!

AC management has done more to hurt pilots in this country than any other! Soon you'll see twi separate unions ACPA Rouge and ACPA mainline. Horrible...

[Genetk44]

Well I suppose that depending on the individual who is talking, any destination can be considered a liesure destination. I believe last year it was announced that Rouge would be flying to 33 destinations.....they are now flying to, by my count, 40 destinations.
At the end of the day the only thing that counts in my personal opinion is that Air Canada is downgrading the quality of the product and to add insult to injury they are not downgrading the price in equal measure to me......so I will vote with my wallet and encourage my friends and family to do the same.