Avionics and radio upgrades

[cyndy]

Can anyone recommend someone who does avionics in CYBW? Or close by? I'd like to upgrade my radios (Cessna 172). Also, any thoughts out there about which brand of radio would be a practical upgrade at a decent price?

Thanks,

C

[C-GKNT]

Hi Cyndy,

Do you just need a radio? Do you need a VOR/ILS or an audio panel as well?

I needed a new intercom and radio for my Bell-47 and just had one of these installed.

http://www.ps-engineering.com/PAR200.shtml

I ordered the wiring harness from PS Engineering and my local AME installed it for me.

If you need the intercom and a radio (and don't need VOR/ILS) its a good value.

Glenn

[Bede]

Hi Cyndy,

From my experience it is most cost effective to buy an aircraft with the equipment you want especially if it's the latest GPS. Typically the installation price is pretty much equal in cost to the equipment price. However, the cost of a used airplane will only be the price of the equipment, not installation.

So for example, you want a C172 with the LatestGizmo 2000 GPS. The cost of the unit is $8k, the installation is $8k. A typical 172 without the installation will be $40k and with the installation will be $48k.

[NeverBlue]

needed a new intercom and radio for my Bell-47 and just had one of these installed.

http://www.ps-engineering.com/PAR200.shtml

I ordered the wiring harness from PS Engineering and my local AME installed it for me.

how did you get it approved?

[cyndy]

Thanks for the responses...basically my headphones keep cutting in and out lately and ATC is having trouble hearing me, so I'm thinking it might be time for a basic upgrade. I don't need anything too fancy pants, just something basic and reliable.

[cyndy]

Btw Glenn, ever since we went flying last October...I've been thinking about doing my conversion...I received a gift certificate to take some helicopter flight training out of Ybw in a R-22 for by birthday...any tips you can PM my way re: training?

[cyndy]

I just checked out that radio on the link you posted...that looks awesome!

[Shiny Side Up]

Thanks for the responses...basically my headphones keep cutting in and out lately and ATC is having trouble hearing me, so I'm thinking it might be time for a basic upgrade. I don't need anything too fancy pants, just something basic and reliable.

What set up do you have currently? Radios, are a sunk cost with airplanes. You could have a perfectly good system, and nine out of ten of these problems I see are usually a headset jack replacement, which would save you a lot of money. Be careful you're not swapping out good stuff. It also could be your headset itself, start there, its the cheapest and easiest test to see if it fixes the problem. Hell, borrow a headset and see if that clears up.

PS, if you can, post a pic of your panel.

[tommywcom]

I just went with the Garmin GTR 225. My AME recommended both the Garmin and the PS Engineering one the OP mentioned. But he did say the PS one is picky about the installation or it won't work right. I'm an electrical engineer myself and I believe it. Plus the Garmin has the name lookup / reverse lookup which swayed me over - I have to say that is quite sexy.

And yes, the Garmin is more $.

[Strega]

Cyndy,

Talk to Kevin at northern avionics, He is honest.

I would install a new Icom A210, and a new intercom, and all new audio wiring from the headset jacks, to the audio panel, and all Coax.. You dont need a fancy pants panel in a 172 here in Canada.. IFR in a 172 here is not really appropriate.

[tommywcom]

FYI, I also went with a used Garmin GMA 340 intercom as that is the hub of the audio. I think anyone would recognize this audio panel as it is a staple in the newer planes. I paid $1500 for the used unit, but the installation is significant especially with new cables going to the 6 audio jacks (I have a twin). Installation was quoted as $1250. And $275 for misc hardware.

[C-GKNT]

Btw Glenn, ever since we went flying last October...I've been thinking about doing my conversion...I received a gift certificate to take some helicopter flight training out of Ybw in a R-22 for by birthday...any tips you can PM my way re: training?

Tips for fixed wing to helicopter conversion...
1) have lots of $$$$$
2) if you can get over (1) just do it...its the most fun you will ever have fully dressed.

Glenn
P.S. Couldn't do THIS with my Mooney.

IMG_0019.jpg (68.73 KiB) Viewed 4059 times

[C-GKNT]

I just went with the Garmin GTR 225. My AME recommended both the Garmin and the PS Engineering one the OP mentioned. But he did say the PS one is picky about the installation or it won't work right. I'm an electrical engineer myself and I believe it. Plus the Garmin has the name lookup / reverse lookup which swayed me over - I have to say that is quite sexy.

And yes, the Garmin is more $.

I had the wiring harness custom made with all the wires the proper lengths by PS Engineering (~$500). Once that was done, the installation is pretty easy. Mount radio, attach power and antenna and run the wires to the headset jacks and PPT switch.

I considered the Garmin as well, I think they are about the same price. Just a personal opinion (and not that the Garmin is bad) but I think that PS Engineering makes the best intercoms and my Bell47 can be pretty noisy. Another thing was the bluetooth interface for my cellphone on the PAR200. I have bluetooth on my headsets (LightSpeed) but the bluetooth interface on the PAR200 is WAY better.

Glenn

[tommywcom]

I have about 10 hrs in an R22. And I completely agree, rotary wing is way more fun!

Flying a fixed-wing is like driving a sports car. Flying a rotary wing is like riding a motorcycle - neither likes to stay up right unless you ask it to.

The only reason I didn't go all the way with the conversion was that I found out there is no rental market in Canada for non-commercial "private" flying with helicopters - no one would insure it. Then again, there is hardly any rental for twin-engine fixed wing either. I don't think I can own one of each though!

[AirFrame]

As far as I can tell, the PS Engineering PAR200 and the iCOM A210 are not TSO'd, so cannot be legally installed in certified aircraft.

I just installed a Garmin GTR200 in my amateur-built, which also isn't TSO'd but the GTR225 appears to be functionally similar and TSO certified. I'd highly recommend the GTR200, and expect the GTR225 is comparable.

[C-GKNT]

As far as I can tell, the PS Engineering PAR200 and the iCOM A210 are not TSO'd, so cannot be legally installed in certified aircraft.

I just installed a Garmin GTR200 in my amateur-built, which also isn't TSO'd but the GTR225 appears to be functionally similar and TSO certified. I'd highly recommend the GTR200, and expect the GTR225 is comparable.

The GTR200, iCOM A210 and PAR100 are not TSO'd and are less than 1/2 the cost of the GTR225 or the PAR200 which are.

Glenn

[tommywcom]

I like a couple of new (to me) features on the Garmin GTR 225. Not sure if they are in the PS Engineering.

First is you can recall recent frequencies. This could be handy. You can also save frequently used freq's to memory locations.

Second is they have a monitor function to monitor the standby freq while transmitting and receiving on the active WITHIN THE SAME RADIO. This is normally a feature in the intercom panel itself to monitor the standby com radio when there are 2 radios. I can think of a number of benefits with this. But personally, my other radio is very old but more or less serviceable, so I will likely just use this one most of the time.

[C-GKNT]

I like a couple of new (to me) features on the Garmin GTR 225. Not sure if they are in the PS Engineering.

First is you can recall recent frequencies. This could be handy. You can also save frequently used freq's to memory locations.

Second is they have a monitor function to monitor the standby freq while transmitting and receiving on the active WITHIN THE SAME RADIO. This is normally a feature in the intercom panel itself to monitor the standby com radio when there are 2 radios. I can think of a number of benefits with this. But personally, my other radio is very old but more or less serviceable, so I will likely just use this one most of the time.

The PAR200 does not recall recent frequencies but there are (I think 5) memory locations. You can monitor the standby frequency as well, GREAT function...its like having 2 radios instead of 1. It was very close between the GTR225 and the PAR200, probably won't go wrong with either one. For me, bluetooth was the tie-breaker, I can call home and have my wife bring the dogs inside before I land.

Glenn

[tommywcom]

Good point on bluetooth. That didn't cross my mind at all when deciding on the Garmin. I do have bluetooth on my Bose A20 headset and that's how I make a lot of calls even at home.

[AirFrame]

If you have a Garmin GPS on board, you can wire the data-out line from it to the GTR225's data-in line. Then, to recall frequencies you can either select them on the GPS, and they'll show up in the backup spot on the GTR, or you can select the "GPS" memory bank on the GTR and then scroll through all the closest frequencies.

Between those two functions I haven't needed to dial a frequency directly since I installed the GTR. The A210 works the same way (it's even easier to tune the GPS memory bank, actually). Again i'm referring to my GTR200, but I believe the 225 has the same interface.

[tommywcom]

[quote="AirFrame"]If you have a Garmin GPS on board, you can wire the data-out line from it to the GTR225's data-in line. Then, to recall frequencies you can either select them on the GPS, and they'll show up in the backup spot on the GTR, or you can select the "GPS" memory bank on the GTR and then scroll through all the closest frequencies.

That is my understanding too that you could do that. Unfortunately I only have a portable Garmin GPS onboard (296), but I will still be able to recall the freq / station name on the GTR 225 directly.

[AirFrame]

From the Garmin website, NMEA+VHF out was added to the firmware for the 296 at version 4.00:
"Added support for tuning SL30/40 comm radios through 'Aviation In/NMEA & VHF Out' serial interface format."

You could have that functionality with the simple addition of a plug for your 296. The same plug could power it.

[x-wind]

Hey,

I recommend QF avionics in Red Deer. Had quite a bit work done there over the last few years (never the same thing twice. Always a very thoughtful and professional job done. Really good group there. They've been around for quite awhile.

[tommywcom]

From the Garmin website, NMEA+VHF out was added to the firmware for the 296 at version 4.00:
"Added support for tuning SL30/40 comm radios through 'Aviation In/NMEA & VHF Out' serial interface format."

You could have that functionality with the simple addition of a plug for your 296. The same plug could power it.

Very cool. I had no idea. I just emailed my installer to see if he can add this. And an audio input for MP3 player etc. He is right in the middle of installation.

[C-GKNT]

From the Garmin website, NMEA+VHF out was added to the firmware for the 296 at version 4.00:
"Added support for tuning SL30/40 comm radios through 'Aviation In/NMEA & VHF Out' serial interface format."

You could have that functionality with the simple addition of a plug for your 296. The same plug could power it.

Very cool. I had no idea. I just emailed my installer to see if he can add this. And an audio input for MP3 player etc. He is right in the middle of installation.

That's the great thing about Garmin, all the Garmin stuff works great together. That's also the bad thing about Garmin, they don't play very well with anything non-Garmin.

Glenn