Rouge Payscale

[twinpratts]

Does anyone have the numbers for what Rouge 767 Pilots are getting paid, and how many hrs/ month they are guaranteed, and averaging per month?
Thanks

[pilotbzh]

There you go...

[ratherbee]

There you go is right! That’s what happens when you allow an arbitrator to decide on your wages.
The negotiated LCC rates from the tentative agreement were blended into the group pay system so the actual wages were significantly higher in most cases.

FYI, a pilot upgrading to Captain at rouge would have been paid as follows for the first year:

A319 $141.18/hr DN B767 $167.22/hr DN

After 4 years, the rates would be:

A319 $150.58 B767 $178.19

Also, in year 5 a FO on either aircraft would have made the following:
$94.87/hr DN

I know it’s all academic but it’s still important to understand how we got here.

(details from the ACPA website)

[ratherbee]

Does anyone have the numbers for what Rouge 767 Pilots are getting paid, and how many hrs/ month they are guaranteed, and averaging per month?
Thanks

Most of the LCC agreement is basically your contract at WJ (Guarantee 77:30, OT at 82:30, draft pay at double time and a half, etc.)

[ogopogo]

I don't understand how there can be CA 1 entries in that table -- are they hiring direct entry Captains at Rouge?

[livin']

If you have only held F/O or RP positions at Air Canada and choose to go to rouge as a captain then you go to the year 1 captain pay scale, regardless of how many years of service you have at AC.

I believe this is the same as westjet and transat. At mainline you get to carry your YOS with you.

[thenoflyzone]

More importantly, why does a CA from years 1 to 4 in a 767 get paid less than on an A319?

Doesn't make sense!

[DBC]

767 Wage is based on Transat
319 Wage is based on Westjet

Westjet Pilots are obviously overpaid, time for concessions

[ourkid2000]

I don't understand pilot wages too well and I was wondering what these rates actually work out to at the end of the year? I do understand that pilots only get paid while flying so the 100 bucks an hour thing is a bit misleading. The per-hour thing tends to throw people off track pretty quick.

I hear co-workers complaining about how much pilots get paid all the time and I always remind them that the rate per hour is misleading. You'll hear people say "oh yes, you poor thing sitting there making a hundred bucks an hour"......all the time not realizing that it's not so simple.

Still though, I have no idea what it actually works out to.

[snag]

Say you work for $100/hr, at 83:20 hours per month, you get $100,000/year.

Rouge targets blocks to the 77.5hrs/month mark. So thats now $93k/year at the same rate.

Sometimes mainline will give you as little as 60 hours work, therefore only $72k.

That $100/hr sounds like a lot, but it's not the $200,000/year a normal job would get you with the same hourly rate.
And remember, you only start at less than half the above numbers ($49.30/hr).

[ourkid2000]

So what are the typical hours per month that a pilot would normally work? Is it fairly standard or does it differ quite a bit between airlines?

[NotDirty!]

So what are the typical hours per month that a pilot would normally work? Is it fairly standard or does it differ quite a bit between airlines?

It varies from airline to airline. Many will have a guaranteed monthly minimum (credit hours, not necessarily actual flying hours, but often close) and most don't like to pay you for nothing so you'll be assigned close to the minimum if not more. 70-80 hours would be a typical minimum. I don't think you'll see many airline pilots getting more than 100 hours in a month.

[ratherbee]

More importantly, why does a CA from years 1 to 4 in a 767 get paid less than on an A319?

Doesn't make sense!

In the original agreement we had blended pay rates so the actual pay on the 767 was higher than the 319 (see my post above). Once the 737 starts showing up that will introduce 2 more rates (Ca and Fo) so we will have a total of 22 different pay rates! If I remember right, the TA had 6 blended pay rates. The current system is ok when we're growing and retiring but during stagnation it takes a long time to move up in pay.

[Mr. North]

When can a guy move from Rouge to mainline?

[loopa]

When can a guy move from Rouge to mainline?

I thought it wasn't possible. You can leave AC and go to Rouge and come back. But you can't go to Rouge then AC. Is that not true?

[Krimson]

You can bid up to mainline as long as there are openings and your seniority can hold it.

[loopa]

You can bid up to mainline as long as there are openings and your seniority can hold it.

Not that I anticipate this happening. But say Rouge folds like Tango, Zip, etc... and your seniority doesn't hold it, you're jobless right?

[snag]

Not that I anticipate this happening. But say Rouge folds like Tango, Zip, etc... and your seniority doesn't hold it, you're jobless right?

It wouldn't be any different than if the company got rid of all the Embraers, or all the domestic flying, or if there's another 9/11 or WWIII. Layoffs in reverse seniority order.