Skycare Navajo Gear up YRL Fri May 23rd

[126.7Spam]

Skycare geared up a Navajo in Red yesterday anyone have any details?

[Chuck Finley]

I don't see folded gear doors or anything.. Hope it's not a oopsie!!!

[BTyyj]

It's Skycare (Skyward)... I wouldn't be surprised.

[Chuck Finley]

I'm sure their maintenance is the best and their gear horn working properly.

[PilotDAR]

their gear horn working properly

I'm sure it worked fine, but it won't sound if the pilot carries power through the flare, and the throttles don't touch the idle stops 'till touchdown. That's not to say that I know anything in particular about this event - I don't. But I know that I caught myself doing exactly that when I flew a Navajo, and realized that I was cheating myself out of a safety feature. They seem to land nicely with a bit of power. After that, I changed my procedure, to assure that that safety system was working for me.

[Illya Kuryakin]

Here come the excuses. Nobody can just admit a crew fu?ked up. Always a reason. Two guys in a simple piston ....... I've always felt an employer has the right to expect pilots to carry enough fuel for the mission, and to lower the undercarriage at day's end. I guess, for far too many bozos, this is asking far too much.
Illya

[Chuck Finley]

Is a simple GUMP check too complicated for our aviation college graduates now? Seriously... All those year as an instructor using endless checklists you would think that doing a simple before landing check would be easy enough.....

[Illya Kuryakin]

You know, I have way over twenty thousand hours, and I've never used a GUMP check. I do check that the gear is down though. Several times, in fact.
I've always felt that check lists (written ones) are the problem. Not the solution. Simple reason. If you don't "read" it, you don't tend to "do" it.
I'm not talking airline jets here.
We live in a dumbed down, monkey read, monkey do society.
Obviously, these monkeys did not read, or do, the "three green" part.....for which, there is no excuse, whatsoever.
Illya

[Colonel Sanders]

Good job?

[MCB]

Good job?

No. Variable winds.

[North Shore]

OK, there were *two* people in there and they both forgot the gear? Please tell me that they had some emergency happening that distracted them...

[Colonel Sanders]

Maybe they BOTH had to update their facebook
on final?

Two pilots is ok most of the time, but when social
media calls ...

[Illya Kuryakin]

I close my flight plans on Facebook.
Illya

[Liquid Charlie]

Just another case of the most dangerous area of canadian aviation -- 703 -- but hey -- who cares small aircraft only kill a few people at one time -- there is more carnage on the roads so just carry on -- no one really gets excited about it and nothing changes ---

OH ya -- wtf is a GUMP check --

[sstaurus]

Gas, Undercarriage, Mixture, Prop? I remember using GUMPCC in flight training, adding carb heat and clearance to the mix.

[Illya Kuryakin]

Gas, Undercarriage, Mixture, Prop? I remember using GUMPCC in flight training, adding carb heat and clearance to the mix.

Always been a beef of mine.....if you can remember all that CRAP, why not just check the bloody green lights? Too simple, I guess?
Illya

[Liquid Charlie]

I learned to fly before the day of acronyms -- flow checks got me through several thousand hours of single pilot IFR - most "in motion" checklists are do then read -- when you get into 40 letter acronyms maybe a simple flow check is the answer --

[trey kule]

Gas, Undercarriage, Mixture, Prop? I remember using GUMPCC in flight training, adding carb heat and clearance to the mix.

Yep.. FTU..take a simple check, and as someone else posted, evolve it to a 40 letter acronym...

Then, add a written check list to make sure again...then check the three green lights. Then plan for the emergency landing because you ran out of fuel doing all the checks

A Navajo is just not that complicated. Not only a good job, but an excellent example of CRM and the PM doing their job conscientiously

I think we should all celebrate it as a learning experience.

It would be nice to have the crew pay for the damage or deductible.....and the CP questioned about his choice of hiring, his training of the pilots, and his oversight..

These accidents are becoming all to common. Maybe the operator should take a page from one of the prestigious colleges and have the crew just leave the gear down all the time.

Two crew...unbelievable that they could forget the gear

[Big Pistons Forever]

My old school crusty, mean and nasty, X RCAF QFI beat into me the 500 ft check. At 500 feet AGL, or wings level, on final, double check the gear. I worked hard to make it an automatic habit. For 20 years I did the 500 ft final check everytime, and every time I did the check there were 2/3/4 green green lights as appropriate to the airplane, until the day I leveled the wings at about 300 feet on a fast curving final and did the automatic quick glance down and there were no green lights

It was the classic case of the plan changing, distraction from the passenger and being in a hurry. That habit saved me from landing gear up. I don't care how much of a "skygod" you are you can forget to put the gear down. Having the discipline to always do the double check on final saved my bacon. It is what I teach for the multi rating and is a practice I highly recommend.

[Chuck Finley]

Let me put the gear down. But first, let me take a selfie!

[Mach1]

And many stones were cast on this day by those who were holier than thou.

We've all made mistakes. Most of us caught the mistakes in time or were lucky enough to recover from it before winding up on the internet. All people are fallible and no one is perfect. I hope that this is viewed as a learning experience by the crew and an opportunity to focus them in the future. I also hope no one was injured. I can't see how any of the negative comments are going to help what has already been done.

The sharing of good habits is constructive and helpful.

[Illya Kuryakin]

And many stones were cast on this day by those who were holier than thou.

We've all made mistakes. Most of us caught the mistakes in time or were lucky enough to recover from it before winding up on the internet. All people are fallible and no one is perfect. I hope that this is viewed as a learning experience by the crew and an opportunity to focus them in the future. I also hope no one was injured. I can't see how any of the negative comments are going to help what has already been done.

The sharing of good habits is constructive and helpful.

So, how often have you left the house without putting your pants on? You think you might some day? It really IS that simple to put the gear down!
Boohoo, everybody makes mistakes.....give me a freaking break here!
Illya

[trey kule]

Negative....?

The message that has to get out is that this is not OK... It is not a learning experience.....
And two crew...I can not even fathom how two crew could let this happen.

Focus on the future? After they wrecked their employer's plane for not doing the job they were supposed to do. I guess that is okey dokey as long as they feel bad and learned from it.

Nope....as it was previously stated...they screwed up. Big time. Even if they did not do a lot of damage, it is an accident that cries out dereliction of their duty.

I do not consider myself a sky god, though I suspect that labelling someone who thinks these pilots need their butt kicked with the term , is a simple defence mechanism...you dont have to be a skygod to remember to extend the gear. You just need to do your job. These pilots did not do their job.

Apparently some people need to wreck a plane and/or hurt people to learn...not the kind of pilots I want to fly with.

What do you suppose these guys will need to wreck next to learn more?

[Colonel Sanders]

I hope that this is viewed as a learning experience

I'm having a Sheldon Cooper moment. This
is masterful sarcasm, right?

you dont have to be a skygod to remember to extend the gear

That's sarcasm, right?

[PilotDAR]

I've never used a GUMP check. I do check that the gear is down though. Several times, in fact.
I've always felt that check lists (written ones) are the problem. Not the solution. Simple reason. If you don't "read" it, you don't tend to "do" it.

As provocative this sounds< I quite agree with it. In my official capacity, I'm supposed to be a total proponent of checklist use. But, the instant that the use of a checklist detracts or distracts from cockpit flow (like any other distraction), they are not good. I'm I'm flying something odd to me, I'll often use the paper checklist at each phase of the flight, until I'm in the rhythm of the plane.

But it is a CHECKlist, we are using it to CHECK the actions which we know we must do, correct? It is not an instruction sheet on how to fly the plane. Morally, I cannot argue against a pilot who chooses to use the paper checklist, 'cause sometimes I will, but if a pilot NEEDS a checklist to assure the wheels are where they should be for landing, something is wrong! The pilot must be conscious of what they are flying to where, and the configuration required to execute that phase of flight. And, I can assure you that it is not always "wheels down for landing". This is not a rote thing, it's a consciousness thing. Are you conscious of what configuration you need the plane to be in?

This article is central to the concept of forgetting landing gear selection, and I agree with the fifth phase too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_stages_of_competence

If you are Unconscious incompetence to aircraft, you should not be in a cockpit at all.

If you are Conscious incompetence, you need to be taking training, and someone must supervise you the whole time.

If you are Conscious competence, you can go solo, but should keep a paper checklist close at hand - but landing gear selection should be Unconscious competence for any pilot with more than five hours in an RG.

Then there is Unconscious competence for the aircraft. These pilots correctly recite the checklist for the type, plus some additional secrets about the plane!

But a pilot can be Unconscious competence on one type, yet Conscious incompetence, or Conscious competence on others types.

Then... the pilot gets complacent, and should be thinking paper checklist again!