2014 payrates

[flyer 1492]

Some more food for thought:

It is true you might have to wait 6-8 years for a left seat at Jazz. When you do make the move, you take your years of service with you and move to the respective pay rate. Take a seven year First Officer the pay jump would be close to 42%. At least you don't have to start over at the bottom of each pay scale (reminds me old Time Air).

[KAG]

It will still take a decade or more to catch up to what you would have made at encore. And unless your a career regional pilot your off to the 37 or elsewhere anyway.
Point is there is more then just numbers to consider when playing the "game of careers".... Just made that up, I'm feeling pretty good about that. I'll TM that saying

At the end of the day there is no right or wrong path/ company to work for its really what's good for you.

[flyer 1492]

What you are saying is not quite correct, as the number of airframes increases at encore so does the wait for the command seat and pay. When you have around 30 airframes the time will increase and you will be farther behind in terms of pay. 100% flow thru will not be very easy to achieve (25-50%) would be a more realistic goal.

[KAG]

I see the upgrades somewhat following wj's past. Months, years, then many years. Point is its not as cut and dry a decision purely based on hourly wage. Especially during a period of rapid growth. I also don't think it's going to be the poor paying job some think it is. That said there is nothing wrong with making 100k first year skipper. IMHO.

[leftoftrack]

Some more food for thought:

It is true you might have to wait 6-8 years for a left seat at Jazz. When you do make the move, you take your years of service with you and move to the respective pay rate. Take a seven year First Officer the pay jump would be close to 42%. At least you don't have to start over at the bottom of each pay scale (reminds me old Time Air).

Is Jazz going to be around in 8 Years?

[Mig29]

Is Jazz going to be around in 8 Years?

Who knows, but you can say the same for Encore, Rouge, Sky etc......my personal view that it will, not quite in the same shape/capacity, but it will exist

[leftoftrack]

Is Jazz going to be around in 8 Years?

Who knows, but you can say the same for Encore, Rouge, Sky etc......my personal view that it will, not quite in the same shape/capacity, but it will exist

whos going to sit on reserve for 3 years to find out that they finally can hold a block knowing that you only have 5 years left till the company is tits up and your starting at the bottom of the sky regional list

[Localizer]

Seriously people ... Who seriously thinks a company operating over 800 flights a day with 1500 pilots can be replaced in 5 years? If the SKR and GGN experiments don't prove my point lets also look at the issue of a pilot shortage .. (Experienced pilot shortage) .. There are many more (financial) reasons I could state, but reality is these are tactics to get better pricing from Chorus in my opinion.

[ImprovedClimb]

.

[rudder]

The only way that SKY and GGN could ever hope to meaningfully replace Jazz is to have hundreds of Jazz pilots quit Jazz to go to these bottom feeder outfits.

Time will tell.

[leftoftrack]

Seriously people ... Who seriously thinks a company operating over 800 flights a day with 1500 pilots can be replaced in 5 years? If the SKR and GGN experiments don't prove my point lets also look at the issue of a pilot shortage .. (Experienced pilot shortage) .. There are many more (financial) reasons I could state, but reality is these are tactics to get better pricing from Chorus in my opinion.

envoy is about half the size it was 6 months ago. Air Canada's issue isn't that it would be to hard to replace JAZZ. Their issue is they cant do it fast enough do to the contracts signed

[rudder]

envoy is about half the size it was 6 months ago. Air Canada's issue isn't that it would be to hard to replace JAZZ. Their issue is they cant do it fast enough do to the contracts signed

Since emerging from CCAA in 2004, Jazz has been replaced to the tune of............5 aircraft (GGN CRJ). And that 'experiment' has thus far been an unmitigated disaster from an operational perspective.

Do you think that finding DEC's is that easy? Just ask Encore/SKY/GGN. Unless current Jazz pilots line up to fill these positions the reality is that there are nowhere enough pilots in Canada to fill the spots.

Envoy/Comair analogies are clearly apples and oranges. Jazz may get smaller, but it will happen slowly and even then the 'replacement' airline will be challenged to find qualified or experienced pilots.

[loopa]

Do you think that finding DEC's is that easy? Just ask Encore/SKY/GGN. Unless current Jazz pilots line up to fill these positions the reality is that there are nowhere enough pilots in Canada to fill the spots.

TFW

[sstaurus]

Do you think that finding DEC's is that easy? Just ask Encore/SKY/GGN. Unless current Jazz pilots line up to fill these positions the reality is that there are nowhere enough pilots in Canada to fill the spots.

TFW

That's the wild card. What another poster said somewhere on here; supply and demand is only allowed to work in the companies' favour, any upward pressure on salaries will unfortunately (likely) just lead to TFWs.

[merlin]

AC doesn't want to eliminate CPA providers (Jazz), they want more CPA providers (SKR and GGN). This means shifting CPA work from Jazz to others, thus shrinking Jazz. AC doesn't want to have 2010 happen again.

Are not upgrades well over 6-8 years right now at Jazz, what is the DOH of the most junior Capt right now? How many years for an upgrade going forward... it could be many many years if ever as Jazz continues to shrink.

There are many Captains at Jazz now that personally told me that they had the chance (some said they had multiple chances) to go to WestJet but didn't for the same reasons people are giving for turning down Encore. Looking back they wished they had taken the opportunity. I wonder if history is repeating it's self?

[proper]

The funny thing is... No one has the balls to post Sky, Ggn or
Encore payscales... What does that tell you?

"The exception usually hides until it becomes the norm"
-Winston Churchill

[razorblade]

There needs to be pay for there to be a scale!

[proper]

Well, after all the rhetoric, the conscious of a sky and Ggn pilot on this thread is too hide the info. Thanks for proving my point.

[Stinky]

The pay rates are on this forum somewhere.

I think Georgian was $70k base and anything over 75 hours was at an hourly rate.

Sky was $52k- $55k base plus around $25 an hour for all flying with a guarantee of 65 hours.

In either case you'll be making mid to high 80's.

Better than any Jazz FO in terms of money in your pocket, not as good for days off, scheduling rules or pension.

Health benefits could be another thing, Jazz is very expensive with big deductions for that and long term disability. I believe Sky and GGN have healthcare plans that are free???

Depends what you want, more and better hours in the logbook plus more cash in the bank today, or a pension and better scheduling rules and union protection. Unfortunately that's about all that Jazz has to offer, you can't argue other intangible perks like job security or opportunity for advancement because those aren't there anymore, especially for a new hire.

I'll just add this, a lot of people seem to compare the minimum pay guarantee of the enemy but then use their actual earnings to prove their point. An 8 year Jazz FO is paid about $66 an hour and guaranteed 75 hours a month, that's $59400 a year.

[Localizer]

I can't recall a min month at Jazz, avg 82.5 on a fairly regular basis. I'll take the DB and security of a good LTD plan in case something happens and my family needs a roof over their heads and food in their belly. I'm not 20 yrs old and looking out for only myself .. One day those problems will be yours and we'll be better equipped to have this conversation on the same level.