No ATP for Air Canada

Pachanga · Post by **Pachanga** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:52 am

I'm curious if anyone is aware as to whether or not Air Canada, since the recent removal of this requirement, has called/hired anyone recently WITHOUT an ATP?

RB-211 · Post by **RB-211** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:00 am

Air Canada, Jazz, WJ etc..... will not hire people without ATPL's. Forget what AC's mins are as the majority of people that go to the airlines will have 4000 hours plus with heavy (20 tons), glass, jet exp. People coming from these back grounds have an ATPL in their pocket.

I think many are in for a shock thinking AC will call and they will slide into a job. A guess and only a guess is over 5000 resumes on file to go through. This is Canada people and there are too many pilots for too few jobs.

Get your ATPL. It can only help.

Pachanga · Post by **Pachanga** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:12 am

I have my ATP, I'm just curious as to why they would remove that requirement when your point has been holding true about Air Canada for the past while. I was curious to see if anyone on the forum was aware of someone actually getting called without an ATP although, as you, I would never expect that.

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:14 am

It has happened in the past and very well could happen in the future especially so if a quota has to be filled..No one ever said life was fair..

quickflight · Post by **quickflight** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:00 pm

Air Canada has always published the technical limmits for their jobs regardless of what is really required. If the ATPL is not required to fly one of their birds they will publish it that way, even though no one will be considered without it.

Dockjock · Post by **Dockjock** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:31 pm

Well rumour round work these days is a someone with 2200 hrs and no ATPL has just gotten an interview.

RB-211 · Post by **RB-211** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:04 pm

I call BS. Must be the only one eyed chinese lesbian in canadian aviation. If this this the case I am sure the skippers sitting next to him/her on the flight deck are thrilled to bits that they will have a crack at the retirement job before them.

No offense to anyone that is disabled, asian or batting from the other side of the plate.

If AC hires anyone without an ATPL I will eat my lap top.

Pachanga · Post by **Pachanga** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:06 pm

Why do you find it so hard to believe?

gelbisch · Post by **gelbisch** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:02 pm

I'm certainly no AC expert or even an employee for that matter... but from what I understand they're still working their way through the pool anyway.

pilotbzh · Post by **pilotbzh** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:03 pm

2200h military jet time sure he'll get the job

Pachanga · Post by **Pachanga** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:07 pm

Are you just speculating or are you aware that this candidate actually has military time?

Dockjock · Post by **Dockjock** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:11 pm

Hey, its a rumour so get a grip. I will take you up on that laptop offer though, once I find out if its really true.

ps. not military, not visible minority, but yes female. The game is clearly wide open and while this is certainly a blessing, judging by everyone's attitude on here, will clearly have her work cut out for her in the credibility department if successful. Grow up life is not fair.

truedude · Post by **truedude** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:14 am

I dunno why any of you think anyone at Air Canada will give a shit whether you have and atpl or not. I can guarantee you no one will care whether you have 1000hrs or 10000hrs they will say welcome aboard. Remember that a lot of the senior captains were hired with 500 hrs or less. No one will have to prove anything, they will have done that by passing the interviews and ground school. This is not some fly by night operation with bitter people who are pissed they arent going anywhere who enjoy giving the younger guys shit.

NovaBoy · Post by **NovaBoy** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:32 am

I have a friend who was in the training department on the DC-9, 5 or 6 years ago had a guy go through with 1200hrs and no ATPL. I should say tried to go through. It wasn't discovered until the end of his sim training, when they gave the guy a couple of extra sessions, and started asking some questions. This guys Dad told him he didn't need an ATPL......Daddy was a 747 skipper.

RB-211 · Post by **RB-211** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 5:27 am

Wind your neck in Dock dude. I was only trying to inject some humour into these tense yet enjoyable arguements.

If he or she gets the job good on them but don't you think its silly that JAZZ which is AC's feeder requires an ATPL and the mainline does not? A slap in the face to ALL Jazz pilots that are waiting for a crack at mainline. Like you said life is not fair but in this case this is bordering on ridiculous. With so many out there with excellent qualifications (male and female) hiring someone with a CPL makes a mockery of the whole system. Maybe ACPA should spend more time looking after those trying to join etc. than fighting among themsleves for biggest toy in the sand box. Oh but this is Canadian aviation and it has never made any sense.

In the past AC/CP etc hired people with 500 hours because the supply was not there. 25 years on this has changed as the supply far out weighs the demand. Millitary pilots tend to get hired with less time for obvious reasons. They are highly skilled, don't really build time as fast as civilian pilots and have done service for their country. Having flown with ex service pilots I will say this. The majority are above average to excellent.

Not trying to start the whole arguement of who deserves what etc. Just saying that in an already very difficult industry to get ahead in, there should be some continuity. Good luck to all.

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 6:09 am

Hmm I have classmates that successfully completed their left seat training but couldn’t be promoted until they had enough PIC time. They were advised to fly a 150 for a hundred hours or so thus enabling them to obtain an ATPL and assume command. Having a ATPL is not the end all that every ones thinks it is, sure it can be one of the important components in the hiring process but having a University degree still carries a lot of weight and normally tilts the balance in the candidates favor..

Food for thought, a lot of you may not like it but as far as AC goes there is only one way to fly their airplanes and that’s the AC way, period, no exceptions. Some folks just don’t get it at the interview stage.

quickflight · Post by **quickflight** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:33 am

ATPL may not be the end all but it makes me glad that I have and not from flying a c150.

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 7:01 am

RB-211

Maybe ACPA should spend more time looking after those trying to join etc. than fighting among themsleves for biggest toy in the sand box. Oh but this is Canadian aviation and it has never made any sense.

ACPA does not do the hiring at Air Canada. They only represent their members. There are more people trying to join than there are members. Why is that? Maybe because ACPA works to keep the biggest toy in the sandbox.

Rebel

Hmm I have classmates that successfully completed their left seat training but couldn’t be promoted until they had enough PIC time. They were advised to fly a 150 for a hundred hours or so thus enabling them to obtain an ATPL and assume command.

Rebel.... was that recently? The last time I heard of that type of scenario was around 1989. Since then, I have not heard of anyone not having an ATPL.

Novaboy

I have a friend who was in the training department on the DC-9, 5 or 6 years ago had a guy go through with 1200hrs and no ATPL. I should say tried to go through. It wasn't discovered until the end of his sim training, when they gave the guy a couple of extra sessions, and started asking some questions. This guys Dad told him he didn't need an ATPL......Daddy was a 747 skipper.

So was I, never heard of this.

backon3 · Post by **backon3** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 10:41 am

Hey RB-211, I have an interview with 2200 hrs and NO ATPL. So you may want to add a little salt to that laptop in September.... hopefully! Maybe they hire more than a logbook, maybe they hire a person. An asshole with an ATPL is still an asshole.

Dockjock · Post by **Dockjock** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 11:02 am

backon3, you might want to serve yourself up a little humility in the process. There are a hell of a lot more people probably way more deserving than you, that will be waiting for the call in the coming years/months. Try not to let your head get too big just yet.

Initially I thought, "hey maybe the odd low-timer will get on" but now after hearing about at least 5 people sub-3000 hrs getting interviews I'm starting to wonder a bit myself what the h$5l is going on. ESPECIALLY with an attitude like that....

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 11:29 am

backon3 wrote:Hey RB-211, I have an interview with 2200 hrs and NO ATPL. So you may want to add a little salt to that laptop in September.... hopefully! Maybe they hire more than a logbook, maybe they hire a person. An asshole with an ATPL is still an asshole.

Apparently, the same holds true for those without.

like2fly · Post by **like2fly** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 11:45 am

Just heard a guy got a call for an interview next week. He has around 2500-2600 hours (flight instructing, fire patrol in a 337, PC-12 F/O)...could not believe it when I first heard it but it is true!

alpha speed · Post by **alpha speed** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:01 pm

So I guess Air Canada is not interested with guys and gals with experience?

Bomberjoe · Post by **Bomberjoe** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:05 pm

Whats the deal with the Degree......It was my understanding that an aviation diploma held the same wieght. Can Anyone lend credance to this thought?

Gurundu the Rat · Post by **Gurundu the Rat** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:22 pm

So I guess Air Canada is not interested with guys and gals with experience?

Maybe they want people who are easy to manipulate come consession time. Any thoughts?

No ATP for Air Canada

No ATP for Air Canada

Degree/ Diploma