Entering controlled IFR from uncontrolled airport

[ahramin]

u r spot on. The only thing i would add is that if ur taking off without anyone paid to watch ie fss/cars then whos going to know your in IMC

You would know.

[leftoftrack]

u r spot on. The only thing i would add is that if ur taking off without anyone paid to watch ie fss/cars then whos going to know your in IMC

You would know.

much like i would have to live with knowing i did 53 km/hr in a 50 km/hr zone. I will find a way to get over it

[HeadingAltitudeSpeed]

The guy flogging along on an IFR clearance in the same IMC may very well find out. There is a very good reason why you need to get a clearance PRIOR to entering IMC in controlled airspace.

[leftoftrack]

The guy flogging along on an IFR clearance in the same IMC may very well find out. There is a very good reason why you need to get a clearance PRIOR to entering IMC in controlled airspace.

Not saying you don't have to pick your spots and take precautions but you shouldn't be flying low level IFR without maintaining a listening watch for local traffic. Listening to the center frequency that your going to be using while doing preflight on the ground checks doesn't hurt either you won't hear center but you will hear any aircraft being cleared for an approach at ur airport on the read back. TCAS has a part to play as well. Not saying you can't get a clearance on the ground, just saying once you try both methods there is one that is really easy and there is one that's a pain in the ass and can contribute to human factors issues further down the line

[HeadingAltitudeSpeed]

Not saying you don't have to pick your spots and take precautions but you shouldn't be flying low level IFR without maintaining a listening watch for local traffic. Listening to the center frequency that your going to be using while doing preflight on the ground checks doesn't hurt either you won't hear center but you will hear any aircraft being cleared for an approach at ur airport on the read back. TCAS has a part to play as well. Not saying you can't get a clearance on the ground, just saying once you try both methods there is one that is really easy and there is one that's a pain in the ass and can contribute to human factors issues further down the line

I'm not even sure what you are trying to advocate here. Getting a clearance on the ground is the problem and can lead to human factors? I would really like to understand how you come to that conclusion.

As for "listening" to the center frequency for aircraft cleared for an approach; foolish to think that you actually have a clue what is going on based on listening to 5 or 10 minutes of a frequency. Not every aircraft low level around an airport is landing, could be just enrolee. Nothing even says that an aircraft is on the published frequency. It is not unheard of to use a different frequency than published during periods of maintenance or failures. But of course feel free to launch and remain "VFR" (as you describe it) busting clouds while you wonder why center isn't answering your frantic calls requesting a clearance to do what you have already done.

[leftoftrack]

I'm not even sure what you are trying to advocate here. Getting a clearance on the ground is the problem and can lead to human factors? I would really like to understand how you come to that conclusion.

As for "listening" to the center frequency for aircraft cleared for an approach; foolish to think that you actually have a clue what is going on based on listening to 5 or 10 minutes of a frequency. Not every aircraft low level around an airport is landing, could be just enrolee. Nothing even says that an aircraft is on the published frequency. It is not unheard of to use a different frequency than published during periods of maintenance or failures. But of course feel free to launch and remain "VFR" (as you describe it) busting clouds while you wonder why center isn't answering your frantic calls requesting a clearance to do what you have already done.

How often do you see pilots rushing from a terminal where they used a pay phone to get an clearance after your guests are seated and briefed with their sole focus on getting fired up programmed and briefed to be airborne within 15 minutes or you get to shut down and do it all over again cause your clearance is no longer valid............Never?

[16SidedOffice]

Who uses a pay phone anymore? Every time I've issued an an IFR clearance over the phone in the past 15 years, it's been to a crew ready to go with a couple minutes notice.

[leftoftrack]

Who uses a pay phone anymore? Every time I've issued an an IFR clearance over the phone in the past 15 years, it's been to a crew ready to go with a couple minutes notice.

That's great where you have cell service. What do you do when you don't have cell service?

[16SidedOffice]

If you're that far out in the weeds that there's no cel coverage, then there's a fair chance that the aerodrome also isn't underlying controlled low level airspace. Sat phones are also fairly common for operators that commonly frequent such remote places.

[leftoftrack]

If you're that far out in the weeds that there's no cel coverage, then there's a fair chance that the aerodrome also isn't underlying controlled low level airspace. Sat phones are also fairly common for operators that commonly frequent such remote places.

Have you seen a IFR map of northern Manitoba recently?

[HeadingAltitudeSpeed]

Might as well give up 16SidedOffice. leftoftrack is obviously the kind of pilot that believes that the rules and procedures in place to ensure a safe system don't apply to him. Wonder if he also puts John Deere parts in is airplane? After all, only an honest AME would notice.

[leftoftrack]

Might as well give up 16SidedOffice. leftoftrack is obviously the kind of pilot that believes that the rules and procedures in place to ensure a safe system don't apply to him. Wonder if he also puts John Deere parts in is airplane? After all, only an honest AME would notice.

A better argument would be how many motorcyclists do you see using arm signals after their road test. They're suppose to but it's unnesacarry and the signal gets accomplished anyway. In the real world people don't signal with their arms or get clearances on the ground when out of contact with ATC

[16SidedOffice]

As I mentioned before, there's a crazy amount of uncontrolled low level airspace in Northern Manitoba. Nothing preventing you from departing IFR in class G and picking up a clearance airborne.

[DH Driver]

Is it possible to get a clearance in the same phone call when you file your IFR flight plan?

[16SidedOffice]

Is it possible to get a clearance in the same phone call when you file your IFR flight plan?

Highly unlikely. I wouldn't say impossible but fairly close.

[ahramin]

Might as well give up 16SidedOffice. leftoftrack is obviously the kind of pilot that believes that the rules and procedures in place to ensure a safe system don't apply to him. Wonder if he also puts John Deere parts in is airplane? After all, only an honest AME would notice.

Actually, it looks more like leftoftrack simply finds doing things properly too difficult to wrap his head around. An LO chart can be pretty confusing for an IFR amateur.

[Rookie50]

Not sure what other terminal areas are like --- I file Ifr from an airport underlying a shelf of toronto's class c and arrival routes into Pearson, I've talked to them about what they prefer (that's terminal directly), and they prefer if I can depart VFR, stay clear of the class C, then pick up my clearance airborne. Has worked well so far, I suppose it's easier for them re protecting the airspace, less waiting for me. Of course in IMC conditions I call from the ground for it with a void time.

[kevenv]

A better argument would be how many motorcyclists do you see using arm signals after their road test. They're suppose to but it's unnesacarry and the signal gets accomplished anyway. In the real world people don't signal with their arms or get clearances on the ground when out of contact with ATC

Having held a motorcycle license for more than 30 years, I can assure you that I have never been asked nor required to use arm signals while riding. Not during a test nor in normal driving. That's what signal lights are for.

As a "real world" controller I can also tell you that I routinely issue clearances over the phone to pilots that are not in radio contact. I would suggest, respectfully of course, that you have another look at the real world.

[leftoftrack]

A better argument would be how many motorcyclists do you see using arm signals after their road test. They're suppose to but it's unnesacarry and the signal gets accomplished anyway. In the real world people don't signal with their arms or get clearances on the ground when out of contact with ATC

Having held a motorcycle license for more than 30 years, I can assure you that I have never been asked nor required to use arm signals while riding. Not during a test nor in normal driving. That's what signal lights are for.

As a "real world" controller I can also tell you that I routinely issue clearances over the phone to pilots that are not in radio contact. I would suggest, respectfully of course, that you have another look at the real world.

Alright you win I've been doing it wrong for the last 7000 hrs. Thanks annonomis Internet people for teaching me how to fly a plane. BTW if you know anyone who's taken a motorcycle road test recently they'll tell you you just made my point for me

[kevenv]

Alright you win I've been doing it wrong for the last 7000 hrs. Thanks annonomis Internet people for teaching me how to fly a plane. BTW if you know anyone who's taken a motorcycle road test recently they'll tell you you just made my point for me

I'm confused. I'm not trying to teach you how to fly a plane. I really don't care how you fly a plane. I simply refuted your assertion that real world people don't call on the phone for clearances. Again, I don't really care how you personally do it. I merely pointed out that over the past 20 some years of controlling, up to the near present, I routinely issued clxs to pilots over the phone. Nothing anonymous, my name is Keven and until April when I moved elsewhere, I worked low level enroute in Moncton center.