Lufthansa CRJ700 lands on runway under construction

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golden hawk
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Lufthansa CRJ700 lands on runway under construction

Post by golden hawk »

http://avherald.com/h?article=476dea26&opt=0
Incident: Lufthansa CRJ7 at Katowice on Jul 5th 2014, lands on runway under construction


By Simon Hradecky, created Saturday, Jul 5th 2014 20:58Z, last updated Saturday, Jul 5th 2014 21:02Z

A Lufthansa Canadair CRJ-700, registration D-ACPJ performing flight LH-1360 from Frankfurt/Main (Germany) to Katowice (Poland) with 51 passengers and 4 crew, was cleared to land on Katowice's runway 27 but landed on a parallel structure which is to become Katowice's new runway 27R. The aircraft rolled out safely, there were no injuries and no damage.

The airport of Katowice confirmed the aircraft erroneously landed on what is to become the new runway. Poland's Accident Investigation Commission has opened an investigation into the occurrence.

The return flight was cancelled.

The new runway's pavement has not yet completed, the runway edges are not yet paved along the entire length of the runway.

The aircraft has to wait for the taxiways being built or take off from that closed runway that has no taxiways yet.

Metars:
EPKT 051730Z 24006KT CAVOK 21/14 Q1011
EPKT 051700Z 23004KT CAVOK 21/15 Q1011
EPKT 051630Z 22006KT 180V250 9999 FEW050CB 21/16 Q1012
EPKT 051600Z 21010KT 9999 -SHRA FEW050CB 20/16 Q1011
EPKT 051530Z 23012G24KT 9999 FEW050CB 24/14 Q1011
EPKT 051500Z 23007KT 180V260 CAVOK 25/13 Q1011
EPKT 051430Z 22009KT CAVOK 26/11 Q1011
EPKT 051400Z VRB06KT CAVOK 26/14 Q1011
EPKT 051330Z 24009KT CAVOK 26/13 Q1011
EPKT 051300Z 23011KT 170V270 CAVOK 26/14 Q1011
EPKT 051230Z 22009KT 180V320 CAVOK 27/09 Q1011
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Re: Lufthansa CRJ700 lands on runway under construction

Post by vrrotate »

At least nobody was hurt.
Should be a good learning experience for the crew.
:roll:
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Re: Lufthansa CRJ700 lands on runway under construction

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

vrrotate wrote:At least nobody was hurt.
Should be a good learning experience for the crew.
:roll:
Pity pilots think screw ups are "learning experiences"! Could have been a disaster. Happy it wasn't, but when you're flying an airline jet for a flag carrier, your "learning experiences" should be well behind you! It's a FU$K UP! Let's start treating it as such!
Illya
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Re: Lufthansa CRJ700 lands on runway under construction

Post by nohojob »

Not to excuse the mistake but if you are coming on the vor 27 approach, which is offset, it could be confusing.
Anyway, they were better off landing on the new unfinished runway than on the old bumpy and slippery one ! :-)
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Re: Lufthansa CRJ700 lands on runway under construction

Post by arctic navigator »

And where was the tower during all of this? No thought to have the crew go around when they lined up on the incorrect runway?
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timel
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Re: Lufthansa CRJ700 lands on runway under construction

Post by timel »

I love the x they put on the runway.

https://mobile.twitter.com/flightradar2 ... 2758988800
Illya Kuryakin wrote:
vrrotate wrote:At least nobody was hurt.
Should be a good learning experience for the crew.
:roll:
Pity pilots think screw ups are "learning experiences"! Could have been a disaster. Happy it wasn't, but when you're flying an airline jet for a flag carrier, your "learning experiences" should be well behind you! It's a FU$K UP! Let's start treating it as such!
Illya
Agree
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Re: Lufthansa CRJ700 lands on runway under construction

Post by Gannet167 »

Unless it's an airport I'm very familiar with, I always load some sort of approach to back me up with the visual to confirm it's the right runway. I've even been cleared to land at the wrong airport by ATC, with identically oriented runways. It'll save your a$s one day.
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Re: Lufthansa CRJ700 lands on runway under construction

Post by DBC »

Wow that X on the runway is pretty bad when the runway it's on is so much bigger than the active one.
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Re: Lufthansa CRJ700 lands on runway under construction

Post by pdw »

Wonder what information they had, for that to happen.
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Re: Lufthansa CRJ700 lands on runway under construction

Post by GyvAir »

timel wrote:
Illya Kuryakin wrote:
vrrotate wrote:At least nobody was hurt.
Should be a good learning experience for the crew.
:roll:
Pity pilots think screw ups are "learning experiences"! Could have been a disaster. Happy it wasn't, but when you're flying an airline jet for a flag carrier, your "learning experiences" should be well behind you! It's a FU$K UP! Let's start treating it as such!
Illya
Agree
If he'd added a "Good job!" and some reference to variable tailwinds (sorry, pdw.. gotta use it!), would you have caught the tongue-in-cheek nature of vrrotate's post? :D
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Re: Lufthansa CRJ700 lands on runway under construction

Post by Gannet167 »

There's a NOTAM for this

A)EPKT B)201404071500 C)201408312359 EST
E)CONSTRUCTION OF NEW RWY IN A DISTANCE 150M NORTH PARALLEL TO RWY
09/27. DO NOT USE NEW PAVEMENTS FOR OPERATIONAL PURPOSES.
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Re: Lufthansa CRJ700 lands on runway under construction

Post by oldtimer »

At least he was the first one to land on the new runway. Kind of an expensive way to get your jollies. I wonder how the pilots union is going to get him out of this jam. What about the second pilot? Is he also on the carpet?
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Re: Lufthansa CRJ700 lands on runway under construction

Post by vrrotate »

GyvAir wrote: If he'd added a "Good job!" and some reference to variable tailwinds (sorry, pdw.. gotta use it!), would you have caught the tongue-in-cheek nature of vrrotate's post? :D
At least somebody got it...
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Re: Lufthansa CRJ700 lands on runway under construction

Post by pdw »

The weather report was included just to show the CAVOK ...
Gannet167 wrote:There's a NOTAM for this

A)EPKT B)201404071500 C)201408312359 EST
E)CONSTRUCTION OF NEW RWY IN A DISTANCE 150M NORTH PARALLEL TO RWY
09/27. DO NOT USE NEW PAVEMENTS FOR OPERATIONAL PURPOSES.
The new 27 threshold is 1000ft east of the old one (yet not mentioned there specifically) and looks a lot like the taxiway since the present one is mainly part of the ramp.

There was another location recently discussed where planes kept landing wrong, and regularly (a new runway that was changed to a taxiway), so it could pay off for ATC to be watchful here too for any first-timers into the airport that might for any reason make that mistake before it's completely finished off. For instance, the black tarmac in the middle (on the google image of the new surface) from a distance looks like heavy centre-line rubber ... which might also be deceiving that it's the old runway.
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Re: Lufthansa CRJ700 lands on runway under construction

Post by Pop n Fresh »

I remember why I used to come here. Heavy centerline rubber? It's a symmetrical line the entire length of the surface. How did tires do that?

I suggest an eye exam.
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Re: Lufthansa CRJ700 lands on runway under construction

Post by pdw »

Have another look; there's some at both ends.

On a clear day ... and from a distance ?
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Re: Lufthansa CRJ700 lands on runway under construction

Post by Pop n Fresh »

Thing is they were landing. Eventually the "distance" reduces to none when you do that. At some point that runway should look peculiar at best. Kind of a negative image of a skunk.

I will take another look but it was instantly striking to me how the left runway looked normal and the right one had a perfectly symmetrical black line down it and the weird block X representation.

Edit: must be me. Still looks like the markings were put there intentionally but in no way look like a regular runway marking or skid marks.
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Re: Lufthansa CRJ700 lands on runway under construction

Post by pdw »

It's Cavok ... and are seeing it from far away when lining up 10-15 NM out (don't know what time of day though) ...

The other thing I noticed on google maps there was yet no runway construction showing at all on the satellite option (except if subscribing to google earth for realtime view). So how well would first-time pilots approaching be able to necessarily recognize/anticipate visually the state of completion of the new offset runway (threshold) at any point between the start and finish dates in the notam (seeing here that it must have looked like an operable runway to them / not under construction) ?
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Re: Lufthansa CRJ700 lands on runway under construction

Post by justwork »

pdw wrote: It's Cavok ... and are seeing it from far away when lining up 10-15 NM out (don't know what time of day though) ...

If it was night they would have landed on the only runway that has lights, I hope.
pdw wrote:The other thing I noticed on google maps there was yet no runway construction showing at all on the satellite option (except if subscribing to google earth for realtime view).
I don't know of any 705 pilot that checks google maps before a flight. Maybe if they checked google maps they would have been so confuse they would have diverted "I don't know about this, I checked google maps and the airport had one runway not two!"
pdw wrote: So how well would first-time pilots approaching be able to necessarily recognize/anticipate visually the state of completion of the new offset runway (threshold) at any point between the start and finish dates in the notam (seeing here that it must have looked like an operable runway to them / not under construction) ?
They're not doing their first solo x-country. They're not first time pilots. They screwed up. Maybe they had a variable tail wind, which increased their groundspeed so much that they decied to take the longer runway, without taxiways, or centreline markings (any markings really, besides the X), and the freshly ripped up dirt long the entire length, and the lack of it being on any plate they had available to them, and no approach that coincided with this great long runway.

Doing a visual? Back it up! These guys landed on the wrong runway and they aren't the first. Heck, lots land at the wrong airport! Boeing did it last winter while on a "visual".
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Re: Lufthansa CRJ700 lands on runway under construction

Post by pdw »

This incident is 15:30-1600Z / 5:30-6:00pm; the two METARS that are highlighted. Are they dodging CB's there ?

Now taking a new look at those same EPKT metars (the Av herald info provided above) and noting the 1400Z/4pm listed there is also the METAR for the time of the other thread's parachutist/Navajo accident only 30NM NNE of there, at Czestochowa / Rudniki airfield 08/26. Coincidently near the same hour too.

Both airports have a similar runway alignment but IMO could be interesting to see if same directions used (Navajo is taking off / Lufthansa is landing) despite strong south west component at EPKT 4pm-6pm. These two accidents happened less than two-hours apart, late Saturday afternoon / the 5th of July.
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Re: Lufthansa CRJ700 lands on runway under construction

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

You guys just can't get past this, can you. Wrong runway. So?
Illya
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Re: Lufthansa CRJ700 lands on runway under construction

Post by justwork »

Illya Kuryakin wrote: Pity pilots think screw ups are "learning experiences"! Could have been a disaster. Happy it wasn't, but when you're flying an airline jet for a flag carrier, your "learning experiences" should be well behind you! It's a FU$K UP! Let's start treating it as such!
Illya
Illya Kuryakin wrote:You guys just can't get past this, can you. Wrong runway. So?
Illya
? forget your meds today?
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Re: Lufthansa CRJ700 lands on runway under construction

Post by burhead1 »

justwork wrote:
Illya Kuryakin wrote: Pity pilots think screw ups are "learning experiences"! Could have been a disaster. Happy it wasn't, but when you're flying an airline jet for a flag carrier, your "learning experiences" should be well behind you! It's a FU$K UP! Let's start treating it as such!
Illya
Illya Kuryakin wrote:You guys just can't get past this, can you. Wrong runway. So?
Illya
? forget your meds today?
I think he is the only one who is off the meds.
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Re: Lufthansa CRJ700 lands on runway under construction

Post by Gannet167 »

I just see a conversation like this going down:

"So, weather looks nice, we've got x passengers, x lbs cargo, C of G looks good, no deferred items. As for NOTAMs, nothing really show stopping. But, it looks like there's a new parallel runway over there that isn't opened yet. So, we'll have to be sure we're lining up on the correct one."

"Ok, great."

... later, prior to descent, perhaps in the approach brief...

"yeah, so just that one big NOTAM to watch out for the new runway, we want the one to the left, right here on the airport diagram..."

"Sounds good pal, boy those beers are going to taste good at the hotel."

"You betcha!"

The NOTAM was a dead give away, don't land on the new runway paralleling the one you really want. This coulda, shoulda been obvious.
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Re: Lufthansa CRJ700 lands on runway under construction

Post by pdw »

There were around 20 Notams listed for this airport, so is there a chance it got lost in the shuffle ? ... meaning it's the last Notam on the long list, and that EPKT ATC would be involved/distracted with the other tragic emergency unfolding 29nm north (beeline) at an uncontrolled airport ?
Illya Kuryakin wrote:You guys just can't get past this, can you. Wrong runway. So?
Do you remember John Candy in "Uncle Buck" where he plays Jack Chester, an overworked air traffic controller suffering from burnout (a few clips at the very beginning ... about the job).
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