Confused foreign AME

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appame
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Confused foreign AME

#1 Post by appame » Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:42 am

Hi all, I am an apprentice AME in Australia I am about a year and a half into the apprenticeship, my family is moving back to Canada, I am therefore looking into moving back (I am Canadian). I have done some research into the Canadian system, I have also contacted TC, in order find out what I must do to transfer what I have done here to Canada. I am still a bit unclear as to what must be done for the 'personal logbook' as TC referred me to STD 566 appendix B, which I was under the impression required a simple initial, reg etc. beside completed tasks, with 70 % of the tasks per chapter completed, but I have become confused as I have read that this logbook is not satisfactory for TC and I will need a logbook from another source, is this true? Also is it 70% of all tasks or 70% of the tasks in every ATA chapter? Can there be multiple types of aircraft used to meet the required tasks or must it be all be completed using the same type? Also what is the difference between M1 and M2, is an aircraft in the M2 category if it is above a certain weight? I was told that one doesn't need type ratings in Canada is this true? Sorry if this a bit lengthy, but any help would be appreciated, thanks!
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GyvAir
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Re: Confused foreign AME

#2 Post by GyvAir » Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:40 pm

Hello appame,

I don't have time right now to answer your questions properly, but I'll steer you towards some previous conversations from this site on the same topic:

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... it=foreign
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... it=foreign
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... it=foreign
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... it=foreign
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... it=foreign

Best of luck!
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plhought
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Re: Confused foreign AME

#3 Post by plhought » Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:41 pm

If your logbook contains the tasks listed in 566 Appendix B - there's no reason that TC should not accept it. I know plenty who have simply made their own printed excel workbooks with the App. B tasks and submitted it to TC. The physical format of the log-book itself shouldn't matter...as long as it's neat of course.

As you are not Oz licensed at the moment it'll be quite the struggle to count your current Australian apprenticeship towards a Canadian AME license. The logbook tasks (although it's not specifically mentioned) really need to be signed out by a Canadian AME.

You will need to get a copy of your initial tech schools training curriculum, and your full transcript (corresponding to the curriculum), certificate and any other supporting documentation. Proof of Aus residency during your school/apprenticeship time in Aus will also be required. Letters from DOMs (or Aus equivalent) stating the time, experience and aircraft you worked on during Aus apprenticeship may also help. Get attendance records from your old school and employer. Get everything. Heck even bring the validation slips from the Bus fare to work.

You need really tight supporting documentation stating hours or theoretical, and practical training. Every one of those hours will count as time for the required experience credit, which for 'M' AME's is 48 months in Canada. This is crucial for the TC inspector.

Best case scenario, TC will accept your 'basic' (ie: tech school) training and give you around 18-24 months of experience credit for that. You will need to get the 566 App. B logbook tasks completed. A motivated individual at a good shop and a bit of overtime should have no problem getting the requisite 70% of tasks required within 2 years. At the end of that, it's likely that TC will make you write the technical examinations in addition to the typical regulatory one.

Worst case scenario, TC will accept nothing. Many an Australian CAME have become AME's in Canada though (and vice versa), so I'm pretty sure they'll accept your training for some duration of experience towards a Canadian AME license.

It will be frustrating.

The bummer is you'll likely find your self lugging it out as an apprentice in Canada for another couple of years. Personally, i'd be really looking at sticking around in Oz just a bit longer to achieve my Australian license (since you are already 1.5 years in), then come back to Canada (if desired) with a Aus CAME in hand.

Some References:

Foreign Basic Training: http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... tm#566s_07

'Basic' training curriculum: (you'll need to compare your schools with whats outlined here - also take a look at the appendices in STD 566) http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... htm#566_12

Table of requirements for Canadian AME: http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... a-1868.htm

566 Appendix B: http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... 1-1889.htm


Hopefully some of this helps,

Cheers.
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appame
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Re: Confused foreign AME

#4 Post by appame » Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:55 pm

Thanks for the help. It looks like Ill just have to record EVERYTHING, and see how I go. I would probably stay if I could get a license here, but since CASA is changing the liscensing system nobody knows whether they are coming or going. It may be quicker starting over in Canada now, according to some. Either way one can guarantee it is going to be a painful and frustrating process. Thanks for the assistance!!
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plainfixer
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Re: Confused foreign AME

#5 Post by plainfixer » Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:43 pm

appame

Make sure you have all of your SOE signed up.
If its possible, get your hands on an Transport Canada AME logbook. But if not don't fret, just make sure your SOE is all signed.
Do you have an ASIC?
If so, get a letter from the local ASIC office to write an official letter that outlines that you have held a federal ASIC red pass and you passed all government checks.
Get an state/govt police criminal record done as well.
Are you living on your own? then keep copies of your utility bills (water, rates, bank account statements) all stuff that proves you were actually here in Australia.
Anything offical or govenment issued with your name and matching home address on it from Australia will assist you in getting a Red pass back in Canada.

When you get to Canada and go to your local transport canada office. DO NOT ALLOW the Transport Canada office to keep your original documents. Let them copy and certify each page themselves. THEY WILL LOOSE YOUR ORIGINAL DOCUMENTS.
Some people on this site will disagree, but I have had it done to me, yes a long time ago, but it did happen and will happen again.

Enjoy your time back in Canada, its a lucky thing you wont have to deal with backwards CASA.

plainfixer
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jetsetfly
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Re: Confused foreign AME

#6 Post by jetsetfly » Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:18 am

appame wrote:Thanks for the help. It looks like Ill just have to record EVERYTHING, and see how I go. I would probably stay if I could get a license here, but since CASA is changing the liscensing system nobody knows whether they are coming or going. It may be quicker starting over in Canada now, according to some. Either way one can guarantee it is going to be a painful and frustrating process. Thanks for the assistance!!
Just wondering what you meant by
but since CASA is changing the liscensing system nobody knows whether they are coming or going.

Changing to what system?
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plainfixer
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Re: Confused foreign AME

#7 Post by plainfixer » Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:44 pm

CASA has changed over to an EASA style NAA system.
But in true CASA form they c*cked it up.
For those of us who transferred ratings from Canada to Australia under the old CAR30 system, got screwed over when the new Part 66 system rolled out.
CASA placed an B1R retardation(restrictions) on my licence and ratings. I then had to pay more money to private 147 training companies to assess my foreign licences+ratings to qualify for the new Part 66 licence.
I was assessed and had to carry out no exams and no practical courses to become full B1 category. (pay lots of money $2000.00)
But CASA will not allow my ratings to become unrestricted(unretarded). I will have to pay an 147 training company to assess each individual rating on my licence, complete exams(if necessary) and then pay more money to remove the retardations.($2000 each)
But only CASA approved 147 training companies can do this, but only on aircraft that they supply training for. So I have an B757 rating with RB211 that no one in CASA can remove the E1,E4,E5 retardations from. Even tho my Category is Full B1.
My company paid for me to remove the retardations off my A320/V2500 rating. That course training was LESS than my initial type course, it was a f*cken joke.
If I want to remove the retardations(restrictions) off my A320/CFM rating I have to re-do the entire retardation(restriction) removal course all over again. ($4000.00)But get this....the restriction(retardation) removal course DOES NOT INCLUDE THE ENGINES. So the course "Title" will be changed to A320/CFM and the contents will be the same as the V2500 course. (Level 2 ATA 22,23,34,45,46.)
So I am not going to pay to remove any retatrdations(restrictions) off my CASA licence. The original type courses were all from Canada under the 566 training schedule. CASA just slapped Australian retardations on them and are making me pay private companies thousands of dollars to sort their f*ck up out.
My B777 and A330 are already full B1 and I will leave it at that.
Oh one more thing.........every LAME (Licenced AME) in Australia with B1.1 (Turbine Aeroplanes) category on their licence has been issued with yet another retardation. They are E9 and E10, Fabric surfaces and Wooden structures.
I only hold Turbine, metal structure aeroplane ratings. Thats the same as all M2 AME's having a Wood and fabric retardation on your TC licence.
I think CASA slapped another retardation on the licence here in error as there are no turbine powered wood and fabric aeroplanes here in Australia.
The only way to have no issues with CASA is to enter Australia with an EASA licence WITH ratings that can be transferred.
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jetsetfly
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Re: Confused foreign AME

#8 Post by jetsetfly » Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:28 am

plainfixer wrote:CASA has changed over to an EASA style NAA system.
But in true CASA form they c*cked it up.
For those of us who transferred ratings from Canada to Australia under the old CAR30 system, got screwed over when the new Part 66 system rolled out.
CASA placed an B1R retardation(restrictions) on my licence and ratings. I then had to pay more money to private 147 training companies to assess my foreign licences+ratings to qualify for the new Part 66 licence.
I was assessed and had to carry out no exams and no practical courses to become full B1 category. (pay lots of money $2000.00)
But CASA will not allow my ratings to become unrestricted(unretarded). I will have to pay an 147 training company to assess each individual rating on my licence, complete exams(if necessary) and then pay more money to remove the retardations.($2000 each)
But only CASA approved 147 training companies can do this, but only on aircraft that they supply training for. So I have an B757 rating with RB211 that no one in CASA can remove the E1,E4,E5 retardations from. Even tho my Category is Full B1.
My company paid for me to remove the retardations off my A320/V2500 rating. That course training was LESS than my initial type course, it was a f*cken joke.
If I want to remove the retardations(restrictions) off my A320/CFM rating I have to re-do the entire retardation(restriction) removal course all over again. ($4000.00)But get this....the restriction(retardation) removal course DOES NOT INCLUDE THE ENGINES. So the course "Title" will be changed to A320/CFM and the contents will be the same as the V2500 course. (Level 2 ATA 22,23,34,45,46.)
So I am not going to pay to remove any retatrdations(restrictions) off my CASA licence. The original type courses were all from Canada under the 566 training schedule. CASA just slapped Australian retardations on them and are making me pay private companies thousands of dollars to sort their f*ck up out.
My B777 and A330 are already full B1 and I will leave it at that.
Oh one more thing.........every LAME (Licenced AME) in Australia with B1.1 (Turbine Aeroplanes) category on their licence has been issued with yet another retardation. They are E9 and E10, Fabric surfaces and Wooden structures.
I only hold Turbine, metal structure aeroplane ratings. Thats the same as all M2 AME's having a Wood and fabric retardation on your TC licence.
I think CASA slapped another retardation on the licence here in error as there are no turbine powered wood and fabric aeroplanes here in Australia.
The only way to have no issues with CASA is to enter Australia with an EASA licence WITH ratings that can be transferred.

Totally sucks .... So just out of curiosity if Australia is going over to the EASA System,Lets say a Canadian M2 Licensed Engineer holding Endorsements on 737's wants to apply for the CASA License which will be under the EASA System and then would like to get the EASA License would he just have to write the Air regs for EASA instead of the 17 Modules you need to do or does he still have to do all the modules even with a CASA and Canadian M2 License?

Thanks
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plainfixer
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Re: Confused foreign AME

#9 Post by plainfixer » Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:37 pm

Jetsfly

Nope. EASA does not recgonise the new CASA system. EASA never will either, due to the stuff ups CASA has made.

So if I was you, it would be much easier and cheaper if you just do the 13 modules with EASA and get the EASA licence from there.
You can do all 13 modules at BCIT last I herd.

Right now CASA is allowing operators to do ALL maintenance overseas. the industry here is crippled. its only a matter of time before Qantas puts an airframe into the ground with Pax onboard. Then from that point onwards CASA will do a back flip and bring maintenance back in-house.

At least Transport Canada has a regulation that requires a minimal percentage of maintenance be done in Canada.
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tohellnback
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Re: Confused foreign AME

#10 Post by tohellnback » Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:40 pm

You are not the only confused apprentice
use your FN head and work the problem until you find a logical solution
Quote: is the millennium generation brain dead
don't listen to avcanadars this is your paycheque be more diligent figure it out
this will be good training for your career if you know how to handle a wrench
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