Truly maddening

[Heliian]

Words don't describe it. I hope the family sues the pants off of this guy.

http://news.msn.com/us/small-plane-cras ... -1-injured

[CpnCrunch]

Why? Do you know something we don't?

[Taiser]

That's what I was trying to figure out...

[Pop n Fresh]

I believe the horn only sounds inside the Piper Cherokee. Unfortunate, but it's probably like that to save weight.

[bmc]

I guess maddening from the sense that the guy flying MAY have been able put it into the water and not picked off people on the beach.

[nottellin]

Well it looks like he killed and injured another person to save himself, after choosing to take part in an activity that has obvious risks. Id be pissed.
I am sure he was able to see the people walking on the beach, yet decided to put it down there when I am sure prob 30 yards farther off shore there would have been a lot less or no people, but it didn't insure as safe a landing. Id be really pissed.

[Colonel Sanders]

Didn't this happen recently? A guy lost a prop
on a Lancair (?) and landed on a beach, killing
a guy?

Great for the lawyers, I guess. They sue everyone
in sight, and deep pockets pays (tort law).

[zulutime]

Trying to put myself in this pilots shoes, I can't imagine the decision to land on top of another human being was made simply to save his and his passenger's life. I believe there is much more to this story that will eventually come out. Unfortunately, we may not get to see that evidence here on this forum unless someone follows the sory closely and reports back to the rest of us. I can't fatham the idea of running my plane into the back of a couple of people on the beach as an "easy" decision at all. Certainly those poor people on the beach didn't derseve this, and my thoughts and prayers go out to their family, but let's not hang the pilot just yet!

[C-FABH]

Didn't this happen recently? A guy lost a prop
on a Lancair (?) and landed on a beach, killing
a guy?

Great for the lawyers, I guess. They sue everyone
in sight, and deep pockets pays (tort law).

Yes, a few years back:

http://avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=63169

[andyl]

How much could the pilot see - engine out approach, higher aoa to bleed speed... Probably looked good setting up - but no running motor, people move around not hearing danger approaching...

Can we learn lessons - absolutely - should we crucify him? Probably not.

Its easy to second guess his actions - we have 20/20 hindsight. Reality says could have been any one of us...

[CpnCrunch]

I imagine it would be even more difficult to see someone swimming. This sounds like it was just incredibly bad luck. Of course there's always the possibility that the pilot caused the engine failure.

[trampbike]

I am sure he was able to see the people walking on the beach, yet decided to put it down there when I am sure prob 30 yards farther off shore there would have been a lot less or no people, but it didn't insure as safe a landing. Id be really pissed.

Well, if nottellin is sure, case closed. That pilot is guilty...

[nottellin]

We'll trampbike, your taking what I said slightly out of context, let me rephrase,
I would think a pilot in command would have a pretty good idea that there was a high probability of there being people on a Florida beach, gliding in at a relatively slow airspeed at a few hundred feet above ground I would think that that could have been confirmed, then some very tough decisions would need to be made and from the little I know of the situation, i personally would have attempted a water landing ( a reasonable distance from shore reducing the chances of somebody being in the water swimming) to avoid hitting people on the beach. I have never flow that particular type of light aircraft, but I would think it was relatively controllable in an engine out situation.

I don't know all the facts of the story but at face value that is my opinion and I would be pissed if it where my family that where killed or injured in a similar situation.

[AirFrame]

i personally would have attempted a water landing ( a reasonable distance from shore reducing the chances of somebody being in the water swimming) to avoid hitting people on the beach.

As a military person (I think?) you may have an above average tendency to self-sacrifice to save others. I'd like to think that I have that same mindset... I've read enough accident reports where the aircraft was diverted at the last moment, where it was believed that the pilot did so to save others on the ground. I'd prefer to live, but i'd hate to do so knowing i've injured another in the process.

I don't think all pilots share that mindset. Maybe if I was faced with that situation, my self-preservation instinct would take over? Who can say?

[7ECA]

From the sound of things, there weren't all that many available options for this PIC in a forced landing scenario. He picked a beach, which gave him a good chance of getting the aircraft down safely, and protecting himself and his passengers.

Unfortunately, by deciding to land on the beach, there was likely a high probability of collateral damage, and sadly one man is dead, and his daughter is fighting for her life.

As for a water landing, in tricycle gear aircraft, isn't this a very bad idea, what with the very real danger of an immediate nose over on touchdown?

[Chuck Finley]

Try breathing underwater while uncouncious because you hit your head while landing. Or swimming with a broken leg and arm. I'll pick beach over water any day!

[nottellin]

I understand that, it comes down to a matter of saving yourself or saving people on the ground, if your going to put it on a crowded beach in florida, you have to realize that your prob going to hurt or kill someone. That's the tough decision that needs to be made.

[mbav8r]

If this pilot picked a road to land on and the wing clipped a vehicle killing the driver, would we be having this conversation?

[nottellin]

Possibly,

there might also be highway traffic act charges that come into play,

but isn't this what internet forums are for? to have respectful discussions or conversations?

[cdnpilot77]

The little girl that was hit passed away this morning

Miami (CNN) -- The 9-year-old girl critically injured when an airplane struck her on a Florida beach last weekend has died, the Sarasota County Sheriff's Office said Tuesday.
The girl, Oceana Irizarry, and her father, Ommy Irizarry, 36, of Georgia were both struck Sunday afternoon, the Federal Aviation Administration said. The father died at the scene, and the girl was rushed to a hospital.
Venice Municipal Airport officials reported a plane in distress Sunday afternoon, Sheriff's Office spokeswoman Wendy Rose said.
The pilot of a 1972 Piper Cherokee radioed that he would be unable to make it back to the airport and that he was instead going to attempt a landing on Caspersen Beach, just to the south.
The investigation is continuing, the Sheriff's Office said.
The pilot, Karl Kokomoor, and his passenger, David Theen, were uninjured. Both are from Englewood, Florida.
The National Transportation Safety Board and the FAA are also investigating.

[zulutime]

From the sound of things, there weren't all that many available options for this PIC in a forced landing scenario. He picked a beach, which gave him a good chance of getting the aircraft down safely, and protecting himself and his passengers.

Unfortunately, by deciding to land on the beach, there was likely a high probability of collateral damage, and sadly one man is dead, and his daughter is fighting for her life.

As for a water landing, in tricycle gear aircraft, isn't this a very bad idea, what with the very real danger of an immediate nose over on touchdown?

Sadly, the young girl succumbed to her injuries and has passed away. I'm sure I speak for all here when I say our thoughts and prayers are with this family as they grieve over the loss of two family members. Our thoughts go out to the pilot who had to make this decision to land on the beach. Regardless of the circumstances, this is something that will likely effect him for the rest of his life.

[YYZSaabGuy]

If this pilot picked a road to land on and the wing clipped a vehicle killing the driver, would we be having this conversation?

Sure we would. Flying involves risk management. As pilots, we have a duty of care to our passengers. We have at least as much responsibility toward third parties who do not benefit from, and who have done nothing to accept the risks involved in, our flying.

There may have been a very good reason for this particular pilot to land on that beach and put third parties at risk. I would hope it was a better reason than simply trying to save his own, and his passengers', asses, or to minimize damage to his airplane.

[Pop n Fresh]

NBC reports 911 calls have been released. One by the lady's friend who said the father was bleeding but conscious.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fra ... sh-n166766

I agree withzulutime. I bet this is no light subject for the pilot. He is probably feeling terrible about everything.

[7ECA]

Flying involves risk management. As pilots, we have a duty of care to our passengers. We have at least as much responsibility toward third parties who do not benefit from, and who have done nothing to accept the risks involved in, our flying.

I agree with the point that we as pilots have a duty to our passengers, as PIC they are my greatest concern, along with the safe outcome of all flights. We've got plenty of regulations regarding reckless/negligent flying, low level flying, etc, in the end though, passengers come first in my mind.

There may have been a very good reason for this particular pilot to land on that beach and put third parties at risk. I would hope it was a better reason than simply trying to save his own, and his passengers', asses, or to minimize damage to his airplane.

The odds are pretty good that a water landing, regardless of water depth, or distance to shore, will lead to serious injuries, and quite possibly death. This is a bit like arguing whether or not we should teach students about the considerations for water/tree landings, when talking about precautionary landings. These types of landings are either going to leave you seriously injured, or dead. There just isn't much wiggle room.

I bet this is no light subject for the pilot. He is probably feeling terrible about everything.

These sort of incidents often lead to pilots never flying again. Passenger or third party fatalities are something we hope we never have to deal with, but if one does have to deal with this situation, I'd certainly hope that people won't just second guess my decision making process...

[photofly]

The odds are pretty good that a water landing, regardless of water depth, or distance to shore, will lead to serious injuries, and quite possibly death. This is a bit like arguing whether or not we should teach students about the considerations for water/tree landings, when talking about precautionary landings. These types of landings are either going to leave you seriously injured, or dead. There just isn't much wiggle room.

I don't think that's entirely true. Ditchings can be eminently survivable, and there's good evidence to back that up. Especially if the water's warm enough and you have life preservers.