North Cariboo Air - Young Pilot Program

[wowie_kazowie]

Anyone have any info or experience with the North Cariboo Air Young Pilot Program? Is it just like any other where you toss bags for a while with the chance of one day getting to fly? Their website says "It’s a unique opportunity available only to North Cariboo employees who possess their commercial pilot license and multi IFR endorsement. These lucky folks have the opportunity to join our Flight Line part-time while they build their flight hours. We pay for their efforts at a competitive rate. And once accepted into the program we pay for their training costs. Once they’ve attained the specified number of flight hours, they’re first in line for a full-time pilot position
I am a bit confused about the "Join our flight line part-time". So you build hours flying part time and once you reach a magic number of hours you go full time?
Feel free to PM me,
Thanks

[Gotham]

The company just changed the way the program works. Now you do your time on the ramp (or whatever other position), then you get bonded for 3 years at 12k with a ppc on the king air initially. After 500tt or 300 hours on the king air if a spot is open on the 1900 you'll get cross trained (adding another 12k to the bond). I think the plan is to not hire any king air or 1900 fos externally. The last few people to be taken have gone to the flight line full time as soon as ground school started, but the company has the ability to move you back into your previous position part time in the first year if things slow down. Wait for flight line is 3+ years at the moment.

Hope that answered some of your questions.

Gotham

[whiteguy]

Basically yes. A lot of guys & gals have gone on the flight but continued to work in their previous positions with the company. Once their hours were up to Contrail standards the then became full time on the flight line. Good for both sides, company still had people working or in a training role for their replacements. These pilots were also able to keep their previous pay rather then go to non contrail pay.

[wowie_kazowie]

Thanks for the replies! So 3 years on ramp and a 3 year bond, you kinda are stuck for a while. Seems like you really limit your options.

[loopa]

Go to YWG, join Perimeter. In 3 years you'll be a Metro Captain.

[AWOS]

Go to YWG, join Perimeter. In 3 years you'll be a Metro Captain.

There are a lot of places other than Perimeter where you can move along quickly. While time on a Metro over a King Air is arguably more valuable, it feels like everyone and their dog is going to Perimeter these days.

Three years on the ramp though is ridiculous.

[sica89]

Yes, I agree. If your willing to move, go to Perimeter in YWG they hire low time pilots, you work the ground for a year and a bit then your flying the metro till you upgrade a year later to Captain. they also have other options bag run.... and dash 8 once u get some experience.

They also treat their employees really well. Something to consider!

[checkremarks]

Go to YWG, join Perimeter. In 3 years you'll be a Metro Captain.

That's not true at all.

[Wacko]

Thanks for the replies! So 3 years on ramp and a 3 year bond, you kinda are stuck for a while. Seems like you really limit your options.

I think the whole point of this is that you work ramp while working towards your licences and ratings so by the time you're done it could be less than a year for you to start flying.

[Gotham]

I think the whole point of this is that you work ramp while working towards your licences and ratings so by the time you're done it could be less than a year for you to start flying.

Exactly the point.

It is a long time to commit, but by the end it's reasonable to assume you'll be a captain on the king air and a co-captain if not a full captain on the 1900.

And you get to go hang out in New York every 6 months!

Gotham

[single_swine_herder]

I think the whole point of this is that you work ramp while working towards your licences and ratings so by the time you're done it could be less than a year for you to start flying.

Exactly the point.

It is a long time to commit, but by the end it's reasonable to assume you'll be a captain on the king air and a co-captain if not a full captain on the 1900.

And you get to go hang out in New York every 6 months!

Gotham

For my edification .... what is a "Co-Captain?"

Until fairly recently, there was no such term, although a few people invented over a few beers one night and began to toss it around.

The definitions section of the regs indicates a "Co-Captain" as being a person on the Pilot In Command Under Supervision Program who is the designated Captain while in training although he or she doesn't meet the experience or licence requirements to be a "for real Captain" on the aircraft.

[Illya Kuryakin]

Pilots really are this stupid? Seriously? Would I get head faster if I paid for my training? What a user industry. Have at it. Ah Pity DA Fools!
Illya

[Gotham]

For my edification .... what is a "Co-Captain?"

Lol it does sound pretty stupid. My understanding is that you're fully trained with a checkout in the left seat, but for contrail(or other company) requirements you can only fly in the left seat with another captain in the right seat, but its fully logable PIC time instead of PICUS which only counts internally. Helps get lower time guys into the left seat sooner.

Pilots really are this stupid? Seriously? Would I get head faster if I paid for my training? What a user industry. Have at it. Ah Pity DA Fools!
Illya

Was wondering how long it was going to take you to chime in.

Gotham

[wowie_kazowie]

Thanks for the replies! So 3 years on ramp and a 3 year bond, you kinda are stuck for a while. Seems like you really limit your options.

I think the whole point of this is that you work ramp while working towards your licences and ratings so by the time you're done it could be less than a year for you to start flying.

Thanks,
I see if you look at it that way it's a good option for sure. For guys/gals with their CPL, Multi IFR, IATRA written, and a few hours in the bag but kinda stuck in the 400-700 hour range a 3 years on the ramp seems a bit tough. However, the prospects after the 3 years seem very good.

[loopa]

Go to YWG, join Perimeter. In 3 years you'll be a Metro Captain.

That's not true at all.

The good old "it's not a problem unless you have a solution for it" applies to your reply. Do you have more updated info you could share with all of us? Because I'm going based on what I've witnessed thus far.

A good friend of mine went from CSA to FO about 8 months in, and Captain about 1 year 8 months in. Then Dash FO after his magic MPIC hours were satisfied. That career path turned out rather well for my friend. 4 years from DOH he's on a regional jet.

I look forward to your response, maybe things have changed.

I think the whole point of this is that you work ramp while working towards your licences and ratings so by the time you're done it could be less than a year for you to start flying.

Exactly the point.

It is a long time to commit, but by the end it's reasonable to assume you'll be a captain on the king air and a co-captain if not a full captain on the 1900.

And you get to go hang out in New York every 6 months!

Gotham

Are you guys sure? It's not a program where you have to already have your licenses to be put onto the wait list? A lot of companies won't even put you on the low timer list if you don't have the bare minimum qualifications of CPL/IATRA/250 hrs. If the program is designed for a 0 hour noob so that by year three he/she has their license, then I agree that it's a pretty good gig. A ton of learning, and by year three you're flying. That should be adequate time to finish your training.

Something to take note of, I've heard from several sources that the low time program at Cariboo is based on favouritism and that a lot of guys don't make it as a result.

That rumour could have been started from a few disgruntled ray-ban posers thinking shiny lenses will get them into that King Air? Hopefully someone can break that rumour with facts on here. I'm just sharing what I've heard. (Nothing wrong with Raybans...)

Unless checkremarks has updated info on Perimeter, I'd say it would be the fastest way to your career advancement to go through their scheme. They seem to get picked up by AC, WJ, Encore, Cathay, the list grows. And unlike some operators out in the west, you won't be hung by Contrails and the likes when time comes for your upgrade.

That's the other thing - can these low timers at companies like NCA actually upgrade? I thought most of NCA's work was based on contrail requirements which would place the 250PIC Low Timer with his/her ATPL out of line for an upgrade on the turbines based on http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 13&t=49232 ... Just my 2 cents.

Best of luck with what ever you choose to do!

[Illya Kuryakin]

Pilots really are this stupid? Seriously? Would I get head faster if I paid for my training? What a user industry. Have at it. Ah Pity DA Fools!
Illya

Was wondering how long it was going to take you to chime in.

Gotham

Somebody has to "chime in". Three years, and then bonds? Give you collective heads a shake! Seriously!
Illya

[single_swine_herder]

For my edification .... what is a "Co-Captain?"

Lol it does sound pretty stupid. My understanding is that you're fully trained with a checkout in the left seat, but for contrail(or other company) requirements you can only fly in the left seat with another captain in the right seat, but its fully logable PIC time instead of PICUS which only counts internally. Helps get lower time guys into the left seat sooner

Gotham

So in a simplified description, both pilots are logging PIC Time on the Canadian registered aircraft?

Interesting .... how are decisions made by the two Captains .... by a game of Paper, scissors, rock?

Who is the one standing in front of the Chief Pilot & Ops Mgr if the airplane runs off the end of the runway or has some other form of operational or policy compliance problem?

Who is the one actually responsible? Or is it "It wasn't me, it was him .... no it wasn't ... you're "the for real Captain."

SSH

[Illya Kuryakin]

SSH, all our decisions are made "by committee". ie., he who chickens out first, wins. We don't run of runways. We don't have compliance issues. We don't take Master Card, and we don't take American Express.
Illya

[Diadem]

So in a simplified description, both pilots are logging PIC Time on the Canadian registered aircraft?

Interesting .... how are decisions made by the two Captains .... by a game of Paper, scissors, rock?

Who is the one standing in front of the Chief Pilot & Ops Mgr if the airplane runs off the end of the runway or has some other form of operational or policy compliance problem?

Who is the one actually responsible? Or is it "It wasn't me, it was him .... no it wasn't ... you're "the for real Captain."

SSH

How does it work when a new captain is doing line indoc with a training captain? The PIC is whoever was designated as such prior to the flight. The fact that they both have left-seat PPCs is irrelevant.

[touchandgo]

Hey guys, do you know if the NCA operation in YEG is any different than YYC? ie if you get hired to work the ramp there is it a shorter wait on the ramp? Cheers.

[boxcut]

Ref the comments about Perimeter in Aviation, I wouldn't fly with them, ever.

And working for them is no guarantee of a flight line position, frankly they give a song and dance to aspirational pilots, then abuse them as employees. Most of these young pilots working as CSAs or Ramphands don't complain even when it violates Canada labour code, because if you speak up, you lose your chance at the flight line. I've seen several good people chewed up by Perimeter's operational goal which is "Profit at all costs" and its disgusting that they can get away with it.

There are some good people at Perimeter, but they're not in management, and they're being abused by their employer.

[jynx]

Ref the comments about Perimeter in Aviation, I wouldn't fly with them, ever.

And working for them is no guarantee of a flight line position, frankly they give a song and dance to aspirational pilots, then abuse them as employees. Most of these young pilots working as CSAs or Ramphands don't complain even when it violates Canada labour code, because if you speak up, you lose your chance at the flight line. I've seen several good people chewed up by Perimeter's operational goal which is "Profit at all costs" and its disgusting that they can get away with it.

There are some good people at Perimeter, but they're not in management, and they're being abused by their employer.

Amen!

[plhought]

You don't need to have everything all done up...though most do. You do need your IATRA all written up before you can really start flying through.

In fact, you can really apply at any position within the company, then do the work to be placed on the list. It's not just rampies. OCC, Agents, Ramp guys...etc etc.

If you don't have all your licenses/ratings all done up by the time you are #1 on the list, then they just work their way down to someone who is....so there is a bit of an advantage to ensure you keep up on your flying.

As far as I understand it there's no separation between the YEG and YYC Young Pilot Prog. It's all one list. If there's a YYC FO spot open and a YEG rampy is next - then it's offered to him/her....and vice-versa.

The biggest hurdle is the inevitable pay-cut when you become a pilot!

Best thing you can do is email the company and take the time to have a phone-call/sit-down. All your questions will be answered.

[fish4life]

Ref the comments about Perimeter in Aviation, I wouldn't fly with them, ever.

And working for them is no guarantee of a flight line position, frankly they give a song and dance to aspirational pilots, then abuse them as employees. Most of these young pilots working as CSAs or Ramphands don't complain even when it violates Canada labour code, because if you speak up, you lose your chance at the flight line. I've seen several good people chewed up by Perimeter's operational goal which is "Profit at all costs" and its disgusting that they can get away with it.

There are some good people at Perimeter, but they're not in management, and they're being abused by their employer.

Amen!

Sounds like a few of the entitled ones who expected the flying position to be given to them yet they couldn't pass a sim eval or bother studying

[Jack In The Box]

They also treat their employees really well. Something to consider!