Sky Regional Pilot Contract

[Maxpwr]

Min guarantee is 65hrs.
So far the Embraer has averaged around 88hrs an the q400 around 83hrs. I can tell you that they try to keep staffing levels to keep us in the mid 80 hr months. In other words they want to minimize staffing levels. To answer your question it's tougher to say but I did post our salary based on 65hrs and 75hrs earlier in the thread. Just add 2% per year and 1.5% for inflation. Then the OTP incentive ramps up to 2.5% by year 6. I know it's not the clear cut answer you were looking for but like I said the pay structure is convoluted and they only broke it down for us based on 85hrs a month.

I will ask them to put something out for 75 and 65 hrs and post it here. Fair enough?

[rudder]

Jazz @ 85 credits all types up to 90 seat max certified capacity (Jazz has min day/flt duty/ trip rigs that apply):

Yr1 Cpt: $82508. Yr1 FO: $44159
Yr2 Cpt: $84568. Yr2 FO: $49694
Yr3 Cpt: $86680. Yr3 FO: $57814
Yr4 Cpt: $88842. Yr4 FO: $60129
Yr5 Cpt: $91066. Yr5 FO: $62536
Yr6 Cpt: $93340. Yr6 FO: $65035

Yr17 Cpt: $122482. Yr12 FO: $76531

*Current Jazz junior Cpt is 9th year scale: $100521

Anybody have current Porter Q400 scale? There is nothing on APC. Would also like to see the SKY Q400 rates so that the comparison is apples vs apples.

[Maxpwr]

The rates I posted are for all types at Sky. Status pay like Jazz. I'm trying to get the Porter payscale too. I think it's pretty good from what I hear.

[Grey_Wolf]

Anybody have current Porter Q400 scale?

Based on 85 Credits / Month

Yr 1 Capt - 77,749
Yr 2 Capt - 79,694
Yr 3 Capt - 81,692
Yr 4 Capt - 83,731
Yr 5 Capt - 85,822
Yr 6 Capt - 87,965
Yr 7 Capt - 90,161
Yr 8 Capt - 92,418

Yr 1 FO - 41,616
Yr 2 FO - 46,816
Yr 3 FO - 54,485
Yr 4 FO - 56,660
Yr 5 FO - 58,926
Yr 6 FO - 61,289
Yr 7 FO - 63,745
Yr 8 FO - 65,337

[timel]

While you guys are at it do you have WJ encore?

[Radiocaster]

So the first 6 years are roughly the same between SR and Jazz. The FO scale at Jazz goes up 4.5% a year after year 2 though.

[Maxpwr]

Yep, roughly the same. But Jazz has a sweet DB pension and higher per diems. And of course a 17 year scale but we all know you don't just put out a 17 year scale overnight. Jazz also made a conscious effort to bring up the FO pay last time around.

[rudder]

While you guys are at it do you have WJ encore?

Here is what I found posted elsewhere on Avcanada (somebody else can do the math for 85 hours).

Min guarantee 80 hours until 01 Jan 2015 then reverts to 70 hours.

Looks like WJ/Encore/WJPA take this 10% indentured servitude discount quite seriously (except on the B767 of course):


FO Rate Annually
Year 0 $38.97 $37,411
Year 1 $40.65 $39,024
Year 2 $42.42 $40,723
Year 3 $44.25 $42,480
Year 4 $46.17 $44,323

Captain Rate Annually
Year 0 $70.91 $68,074
Year 1 $72.80 $69,888
Year 2 $74.75 $71,760
Year 3 $76.75 $73,680
Year 4 $78.80 $75,648

"Annually" is based on min guarantee of 80 hours per month

[rudder]

What are the overtime premiums at SKY, Porter, and Encore? 25/50/100%? At what point do they kick in? 80/85/90?

[Maxpwr]

Overtime at Sky starts at 90hrs. Its time and a half.

[sluggo]

.

[Regional Rat]

Hey Regional Rat,

If you hate the place so much, why haven't you left yet? Nothing personal but it does sounds you have a vendetta against SR.

Working in it.... In the meantime this is where I'm at. Unless I was to just find another deadend job, it takes more than a few weeks to move on.

[Regional Rat]

Oh yeh, I'll get back to my rant a little later... Been a little tied up updating my resume! LOL!

Looking at the convoluted email we were issued and then reading MaxPwr's pay scale numbers, I think his table a little off. First off, you can't base anything on 85 hours at SR, our min guarantee is only 65! Sure, we do more, but the fact is only 65 is guaranteed so that's what we must calculate BASE PAY at.

And further to airboy1's point, yes good advice. But while I'm here I feel a duty (not vendetta) to say it like it is! I'll give it to you as straight as I can get it. Why not?

[airboy1]

When is the last time you flew less than 80 hours Regional Rat?

[Regional Rat]

When is the last time you flew less than 80 hours Regional Rat?

I actually went about 3 months straight between 50-60 over the winter... But that's not really my point. What I was getting at was that Base-Pay must calculated on minimum guarantee. Anything extra is just that, extra. When you make a personal budget or take a loan you can't count on EXTRA being there when you need it.

[Grey_Wolf]

What are the overtime premiums at SKY, Porter, and Encore? 25/50/100%? At what point do they kick in? 80/85/90?

PORTER

Annual Salaries (mentioned above) based on a guarantee of 85 Credits per month. 10 SDO's per month.

"Monthly Bid Window" Block Hours come out the month prior, for each position (Capt & FO)
If window is less than 85, then company "tops up" the pay to a guaranteed 85.
If window is above 85, then it triggers OT Pay, for whatever work is done over 85.

- 1.5x Pay on Scheduled Day Off (SDO), Minimum of 4.0 Credits for that day.
- 1.5x Pay after 85 hours accumulated for the month

Credits accumulated on a STAT day and SDO don't count towards the 85 total, since they are already paid at 1.5x!

[Regional Rat]

Alright here's my take on it... Bare bones, based on minimums (only fair way to do it).
Right now Captain is $50,000/yr Base + $23/Hr flight (variable, based on 65hours/mon)

Captain (sorry didn't take the time to calculate FO, but if you need it I will):

Year 1 - 67,940
Year 2 - 70,317.90
Year 3 - 72,779.03
Year 4 - 75,326.29
Year 5 - 77,962.71
Year 6 - 80,691.41

*Based on ACTUAL 1st year Captain pay (right now) increased by 3.5% annually (total of the 2 increases).
So as the previous threads show, we make less than an Encore Pilot and a lot less than a Porter Pilot (I believe from what I've seen the Porter scale is about $2,000 higher all the way up to year 8 ).

My take on it, for what it's worth:

1) The original 2% this "pay-scale" is based on, is written into our original contract from day 1. So it isn't an increase now, nor was it last time they published it! Meant as a COLA (cost of living allowance) it still falls short of the national average of 2.4% inflation, and even further of GTA's inflation closer to 4%! So this is nothing at all...

2) What we did get is a 1.5% annual starting in January. Not much to write home about and when added to the above 2% it still doesn't match the GTA inflation rate. Bad money now and bad money later!

3) There were some improvements on overtime pay between 80-90 hours. But it's looks fishy to me! OT rate based on "variable rate" which means our Flight hour pay AND NOT OUR BASE ADDED IN like other airlines! They just skimmed a little more! After 90 hours you get it all... IMHO stay UNDER 80 hours and come in for SDO!

4) They added OTP incentive "UP-TO" 2.5% depending on years of service whatever that means... Sounds good, but only IF you get it all!

5) RRSP % improvement, but they aren't worth anything to people that leave.

6) They were close to getting rid of the Base+Variable pay system to make things fair. Or so it was negotiated with the 'Pay-Committee' but they just AXED one of the best Captains on that committee so no hope of seeing that! That's how they "THANK" us for getting involved with the company I guess! Unless your a schmoozer...

The final take? Just like I predicted; same S#!T sandwich re-wrapped and sprinkle some pennies on it! Overall we got 1.5%, added to our COLA that still doesn't add up to GTA inflation. So we aren't moving ahead just maintaining. The OTP bonus, like any bonus sounds good. But bonuses come and go and you can't take a 'Projected-bonus' to the bank to get a loan/mortgage. In fact some banks only accept BASE PAY, which means 50K that a Captain can use to apply for a mortgage! Good luck with that in GTA! A Captain can't afford a house and meanwhile our CEO just bought himself a Lear Jet! Just another example of the 'Baby-Boomers' eating their young!

Lastly, there are a lot of you who have flown a Turbine (or a float plane for that matter) up North somewhere making great pay. But it was fair! We've all seen what the 3rd World pays Pilots of Regional Aircraft! I saw an add in Ethiopia for a Q400 Captain, $10,000/mon with commuting and flights paid! That's just one example, there are MANY! All of these places have the same (or higher) Operating costs, the Northern Ops also have tight profit margins so the only reason Regional Pilots are paid so little is because they've decided not to to take the money for themselves! So why are we buying the "Industry-Standard" as acceptable?!? Our COO even had the gall to call it "Competitive"... More like "Comparable"... to S#!T that is!!!!
BIG DISAPPOINTMENT! Just sayin...

[indieadventurer]

Encore pilots only get paid their straight hourly rate (1.0x) when working a SDO and no min guarantee either for that day. 1.5x only kicks in above 90 hrs, which nobody touches.

[Regional Rat]

Encore pilots only get paid their straight hourly rate (1.0x) when working a SDO and no min guarantee either for that day. 1.5x only kicks in above 90 hrs, which nobody touches.

Ouch!!!

[Mig29]

Hey Regional Rat,

thanks for the update.....unfortunately nothing to brag about indeed:(

Jazz is taking in guys twice a year, so that would be my first recommendation for anyone who wants to stay home (Canada) and has not had a shot or luck at mainlines. That recommendation is based on all good and bad factors that everyone already has talked about....Porter would be my close second, but only if you are GTA, Ottawa or YHZ based.

Everything else is modern day slavery for a profession that demands much more from each one of us.

[bearinmind]

Jazz might be a good bet. Something cooking here at AC involving NB fleet, rumor is that it includes Jazz, should hear by the end of September if it works out. Bad for AC good for Jazz.

[rudder]

Jazz might be a good bet. Something cooking here at AC involving NB fleet, rumor is that it includes Jazz, should hear by the end of September if it works out. Bad for AC good for Jazz.

The only action that AC can take unilaterally absent ACPA concurrence or consent is the removal from service of the E190 aircraft provided the employment of the pilots associated is protected. Given that AC is looking for relief on the Rouge LOU, it is unlikely that it will act unilaterally and end up stuck with only 319's as the NB fleet at Rouge.

Alternatively, AC could be waiting until 2016 to take another run at ACPA on scope. Once again - bad idea.

The reality is that AC has further opportunity for WB international growth but the medium term projection will be that pilot staffing and the pilot supply pipeline will not be able to keep up with the combination of attrition and growth.

Jazz has the second largest pilot group in Canada. Figuring out the most efficient use for 1500 ATP pilots would seem a logical commercial and strategic endeavour unless you want them to pursue a future with the competition instead. It is fast becoming a sellers market for pilots. It would be wise for AC to lock up the pilot supply chain sooner rather than later as it would be frustrating to realize that growth opportunities must be foregone due to lack of qualified pilot resources.

[Maxpwr]

Regional Rat you're just effing hopeless! You don't even know your own salary! How can you expect these people to take you seriously when you don't even know what you make??? Allow me to correct your BS.

Current Yr1 Capt base $52000 NOT $50000. Plus 65 hrs a month credit PLUS GUARANTEED 5% profit share = $73437 NOT $67940. I think your abacus is missing a few beads.

Do you really think they want us to work 65hrs a month? Do you think they want that kind of inefficiency? From the last year and a half what have you seen that makes you think they would hire sooooo many pilots so as to just use you for 65hrs?! Hmmm? I think comparing salaries at 85hrs is REASONABLE. I know that's a big word you're unfamiliar with so I typed in big letters for you. However it is also reasonable to quote the salaries at both 65 and 75hrs as I've said before I will work it out and put it here later ACCURATELY.

Quote:
4) They added OTP incentive "UP-TO" 2.5% depending on years of service whatever that means...

Whatever that means??? Lol! If you READ the presentation that was PROVIDED TO YOU you would see what that means. Get hooked on Phonics, it's a quality product. Allow me to enlighten you. It's a scale that ramps up to 2.5% by year six. I included this in my quoted salaries previously. Yes it could be slightly less due to OTP not achieved but it's a fairly small effect even if we only get half of it.

Quote:
In fact some banks only accept BASE PAY, which means 50K that a Captain can use to apply for a mortgage! Good luck with that in GTA! A Captain can't afford a house and meanwhile our CEO just bought himself a Lear Jet!

Actually in FACT those banks would see the employment letter you get from HR stating your base salary including the 65hrs GUARANTEED MINIMUM. No problem getting a mortgage. If you can't afford a house in your salary then I feel sorry for you. It's weird, everyone I know owns their own home in the GTA. Most of them make less than you do. If you need help with your finances then you should tune into Suze Orman. It's never to late to get your financial self in order.

I think I've got you figured out, always shaking your fist at the sky or pissing in the wind and wondering why you're wet. Have you noticed FO's booking off on you lately? Guess what there's no flu going around.

Sky is very far from being perfect. But we should all be trying to improve things. And we are. The haters want to hear that Sky is hell on earth, the end of days, locusts, fire and brimstone, Dogs and Cats getting along! But it's just not like that. I've always tried to publish the FACTS to let people decide for themselves. If you want facts then I can try to provide that bit if you want to hear hate, inaccuracy and baseless negativity then you know who to talk to.

Just sayin!

[Etihad]

If able, would appreciate seeing how the FO pay is divided up at SR?

[Radiocaster]

Jazz might be a good bet. Something cooking here at AC involving NB fleet, rumor is that it includes Jazz, should hear by the end of September if it works out. Bad for AC good for Jazz.

The only action that AC can take unilaterally absent ACPA concurrence or consent is the removal from service of the E190 aircraft provided the employment of the pilots associated is protected. Given that AC is looking for relief on the Rouge LOU, it is unlikely that it will act unilaterally and end up stuck with only 319's as the NB fleet at Rouge.

Alternatively, AC could be waiting until 2016 to take another run at ACPA on scope. Once again - bad idea.

The reality is that AC has further opportunity for WB international growth but the medium term projection will be that pilot staffing and the pilot supply pipeline will not be able to keep up with the combination of attrition and growth.

Jazz has the second largest pilot group in Canada. Figuring out the most efficient use for 1500 ATP pilots would seem a logical commercial and strategic endeavour unless you want them to pursue a future with the competition instead. It is fast becoming a sellers market for pilots. It would be wise for AC to lock up the pilot supply chain sooner rather than later as it would be frustrating to realize that growth opportunities must be foregone due to lack of qualified pilot resources.

+1