Don't do it!

N2 · Post by N2 » Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:58 pm

Don't ever give up your dream of flying for the office paycheck...I did and hate ever single moment of it now! Can't wait to retire.

LostinRotation · Post by **LostinRotation** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:45 pm

Screw it, retire one day ... build yourself a descent kit plane on floats and have a blast flying while we are sluggin away and fighting over senority, pay, benefits and trainning bonds

... what ever you choose, you can always hit the local airport, do a check ride and start renting once a month or so just to keep you going

-=0=LIR=0=-

classiv · Post by **classiv** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:13 pm

Yes, but if I went back into Canadian aviation industry I would be forced, literally, to have to go to the Food Bank and probably try to get into some kind of gov't subsidised housing.

For the newbies out there, I'm not making this up.

As much as I love planes, I not prepared to loose my wife and kids over it... The wages in this industry are outrageous to say the least...

If only I was 20 and single again...

Blue Streak · Post by **Blue Streak** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 4:31 am

It's definetely a rough go that's for sure!

DD

Hickory Stick · Post by **Hickory Stick** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 4:49 am

That is why I and a buddy of mine are going over seas to fly. We are at Bombardier in YUL training as we speak.

Cheers

alpha speed · Post by **alpha speed** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 4:57 am

I too am really considering the over seas thing.
I am sick of being broke, in debt and not being able to get a head.
I have a good lead and I hope it works out.

swords1 · Post by **swords1** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:20 am

I have the best of both worlds really. I have a full time job and I instruct part time. Yes, the paycheque from the flying end just about pays the gas bill at the end of the month. No benefits but its great to be able to fly and not have to pay for the priviledge. I even got a job in Calgary which took a long time.

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:52 am

I've done both. I used to work office full time, and flew part-time, building up hours and ratings.

Then I left the office gig, and went to work full-time as a pilot. Didn't earn very much money, but the real problem was that my brain started to turn to mush.

So I quit the pilot gig and went to work for http://www.cisco.com which was quite a hoot in the 90's. Employee stock options, anyone? God the telecom boom was fun. Everyone in California had Ferraris and great airplane toys. One guy I knew bought a king air. Another guy bought a pc-12. Another guy (paul at juniper) was looking at a 604, I don't think he went through with it. Too much airplane.

But the telecom boom went bust, and it stopped being fun, so I went back to my old job as a kernel/protocol/driver coder. Part-time we do this:

http://www.pittspecials.com

What I learned is that you've got to do what makes YOU happy, which is not likely going to be what makes someone else happy.

evalle · Post by **evalle** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:12 am

Agree 100% but what is more important, family of "fly"?
I love flying, i dream every day about a flying job!!!! but i have a mortgage, a wife and a kid on the way. Should i keep them hungy and fly?
I am looking overseas as well, my best friend is flying a Lear 45 in Italy and makes a load of money too!!!! The conversion are difficult though, i hate JARs!!!!

plainfixer · Post by **plainfixer** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:37 am

I got a guy on my crew who gave up flying because he was sick and tired of being paid so little. Him and his wife were always starving is his description.
For all of those heading overseas make sure you keep photocopies of your foreign airside passes, get letters from the organisations that issued them confirming they were actually issued, and keep originals of utility bills.
Coz when you all get back to canada, you will be glad you have kept all those silly document copies.

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:57 am

If you've got a mortgage, a wife and a kid on the way, you have already made the decision not to pursue the full-time pilot gig.

If you're starting out as a pilot, you want to be single and have no debts, and have some cash in the bank that you never, ever mention to anyone, especially when it's time to buy booze for the crewhouse party.

If you've got a wife, she'd better make some pretty good coin, and should be willing to move on a moment's notice to godforsaken places that have the name "fort" or "lake" in them. Women like that are few and far between.

Get the mortage, wife & kids after you're flying something with no propellors. As a rule of thumb, if you fly something with props for a living, you will either starve, or live someplace with "fort" or "lake" in the name, and as a caucasian, will be part of a distinct and visible minority.

Yoyoma · Post by **Yoyoma** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:05 am

Alpha speed wrote:... to get a head...

achem, achem...sorry!

Well, pay is low, some seem to be doing better than others. I'm an office worker and some of you guys earn more than I do. But most, less.

N2, I don't know about you, but when I chased that dream, I only found a nightmare. It wasn't what I had dreamed of. Always an extra load, always less dollars on your late checks, fly when everyone else is not, old equipment, long waits between small jobs, unemployment...

Just thinking about it brings all the emotions back!

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:19 am

Hedley :

Last week I met a guy from Turkey at an airshow we flew in that had the most exotic biplane I have ever seen, it even has spades on the rudder.

He went on before us and I sat on the wing of the Cat and watched him perform, really was an awsome machine it even has the same wings as Shawn Tucker has on his machine.

Here is his web site, I can't get it to open on this boat anchor of a computer I'm on but you probably can.

http://www.acromach.com

We spent most of the day together drooling over each others airplanes and I hope to visit him in Turkey some day.

The guy has put real money into his equipment he even has a custom made tractor trailer to service the machine on the road..

Enjoy the pictures and let me know if you have heard of him.

Cat

evalle · Post by **evalle** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:28 am

Hedley wrote:If you've got a mortgage, a wife and a kid on the way, you have already made the decision not to pursue the full-time pilot gig.

If you're starting out as a pilot, you want to be single and have no debts, and have some cash in the bank that you never, ever mention to anyone, especially when it's time to buy booze for the crewhouse party.

If you've got a wife, she'd better make some pretty good coin, and should be willing to move on a moment's notice to godforsaken places that have the name "fort" or "lake" in them. Women like that are few and far between.

Get the mortage, wife & kids after you're flying something with no propellors. As a rule of thumb, if you fly something with props for a living, you will either starve, or live someplace with "fort" or "lake" in the name, and as a caucasian, will be part of a distinct and visible minority.

I started flying when i was single (and younger) with a good desk-job and money in the bank.
I never decided to give up flying, and keep my day-job. I decided that getting old and broke, used by my employer and underpaid is not for me.
If i find a company that pay decent money for fly, i will jump right in!!!! even for less money that what i am doing now.
My wife is an incredible woman, i am in love with her and she told me many times that wherever i go she comes with me!!! proof? She moved from Italy to Canada for me....

abc xyz · Post by **abc xyz** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:11 am

The airline game has changed 10 fold over the last 30 years. I think people still think of the glory days of PAN AM and the likes flying half way around the world for a 3 day layover in a 5 * hotel.

Today its just a job - a great job but one with many risks. In Canada we have one key international player and a handful of niche players. Not really a lot of jobs to go around. If u miss the hiring boom you are likely in a long career often a low demeaning wages. Sounds harsh but its the new reality of this game. Get an education develop interests in something other than aviation so if that call never comes you are not left hanging.

Canada's airline industry is very much still in limbo if u ask me.

AC is trying to get its act together - things look great from all accounts but fuel is $60 a barrel and terrorism is always lurking

WJ is buying planes left right and centre without much of a clear path for the future. Much of their recent expansion has been questioned. Where theres smoke theres fire

SSV and AT both are at the whim of the economy and very seasonal. Hence AT's agreement with WJ - AT pilots didnt benefit

KF and CJ - old equipment in need of replacing . Where do the SO's go. 757's are an option but are 2 crew and can carry more load = layoffs

If flying for a living is choice 1a find out what could be a 1b and start applying to those jobs. If someone calls with a job offer you can always say NO. Keep your options open

Just my 2 cents

Im 25 and seen the best and worst of the industry

Take Care

flingwing206 · Post by **flingwing206** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:18 pm

buncha bus drivers. thats all

CLguy · Post by **CLguy** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 6:42 pm

Hedley said:

As a rule of thumb, if you fly something with props for a living, you will either starve, or live someplace with "fort" or "lake" in the name, and as a caucasian, will be part of a distinct and visible minority.

Last year my T-4 showed just over 92K, was scheduled for a 140 days, actually worked 86 days, flew 126 hours, don't live in a place that has Fort or Lake in the name and yes my aircraft has props and yes I am quite a few steps away from the food bank!!!

It is all what you sets your goals at. If you go through aviation with blinders on only looking at the big iron with no props, chances are you will miss some of the best jobs in aviation and yes quite likely you will starve.

Yoyoma · Post by **Yoyoma** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 8:12 am

CLguy, you're what they call an aberration in a quantitative analysis.

CLguy · Post by **CLguy** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:15 am

Yoyoma, you may be correct but by making a blanket statement that if you fly props you will starve is wrong and sends the wrong message to younger people thinking about a career in aviation. I know many people who are flying props in many different types of aircraft that are making out great. It isn't only the people on the big iron who have a decent life style.

Like I said in a previous post, it is all about where you set your goals and whether you are willing to remove the blinders.

Babel Fish · Post by **Babel Fish** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:13 pm

I love flying...I hate aviation.

Yoyoma · Post by **Yoyoma** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:54 am

CL, that's true and a good statement on your part. I still think there's a fine balance between your situation and the starving prop pilot.

New comers still have to realise that they are not special, if they don't know the right person, are hard working or are lucky as hell, they won't make it in today's aggressive market. And that applies to any other field, heck, I'm fighting this battle right now in management...

Swamp Donkey · Post by **Swamp Donkey** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:17 am

Good post CLguy. I have to agree.

I too am making a good living on props. Your statements were mostly true Yoyoma, but you have to consider there's many things the big iron can't do and pilots who can do that work will remain in demand. To say all prop jobs are low pay is perhaps too much a blanket statement, and will deter the pilots who love the niche work!

Don't do it!

Don't do it!

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