Taxi Gyros Check Callout

[classiv]

Does anyone here have an easy to remember phrase for the Gyro checks done during taxi for a 172?

Thanks!

[Panic]

How about checking from top to bottom (I start it during a turn):

-compass free and floating (I know you said gyros, but I think the compass is somewhat important)
-turn right, ball left
-horizon level
-DG turning in direction expected
-turn left, ball right

No phrase, but just a natural flow of the cockpit.

[5x5]

Maybe this isn't easy like you're looking for, but maybe it shouldn't be either.

For what it's worth, this works for me. I always incorporate all six basic instruments - left to right, top to bottom.

Airspeed - 0 at taxi speed (if it's registering somewhere higher, what's it going to read once you actually get pitot pressure. Likely too high which could certainly be a problem later in the flight))

Attitude indicator - steady and level

Altitude - field elevation (a quick confirmation they actually know the field elevation as well as a check they've set the altimeter setting)

Turn and Bank - wing right/ball left for right turn, opposite for left

Heading indicator - number increasing in right turn/decreasing left (they need to know this relationship later for instrument flying anyway. It's amazing how easy it is for some students to get confused as to which way they're turning in early instrument practice)

VSI - zero or actual reading (if it's out either high or low on the ground they need to know before they take flight. Otherwise in level flight they confirm with the instruments that their picture out the window is correct and will adjust to make the VSI read zero and climb or descend. If it's out on the ground it needs to be in the same position to be level in the air)

Finally - compass free and floating.

It actually doesn't long after the first few times and by doing this they have verified all the instruments are working and they're also establishing some basics for safe flying and future lessons.

[. ._]

Turning right, ball left, increasing, steady, free floating.

Turning left, ball right, decreasing, steady, free floating, (tracking) for an ADF.

Pointing to the appropriate gauges. I think that's a Sault College standard.

On takeoff,

Full power achieved, airspeed alive, rotate at 55 kts. (That's for a Zlin.)

-istp

[Right Seat Captain]

I do, and teach what 5x5 said.

[Dyck Hertz]

Does anyone here have an easy to remember phrase for the Gyro checks done during taxi for a 172?

Thanks!

yup....

spectacles, testicles, wallet and watch....

oh wait that ain't it I forgot!

[rotateandfly]

i was taught to do it this way:

In a right turn:

- Turn coordinator right
- DG turning to the right
- inclinometer left
- Compass turning to the left.

vice versa

Easy to remember

[Wasn't Me]

ISTP

On take off do you confirm full power or something to let you know the engine is producing full RPM. There is a number called static max RPM that most look for as well as rest of what you said. Just an Idea.

[. ._]

Wasn't Me,

Yep, on the Zlin I look for 2700 RPM and the manifold pressure way the @#$! up there.

The "way the @#$! up there" isn't in the POH, BTW. It's just what I look for.

-istp

[oldtimer]

When the Right Seater asks for "Instruments?" on the checklist I reply
"They are all right here in front of me and the are following the airplane you dipshit. What the hell do you think they are doing? telling you to fly to Pakatawagan or some dumb shit place like that? Now sit up, pay attention and watch the old master demonstrate absolute mastery, as opposed to the horrible demonstration of aerial incompetance I saw the last time some idiot allowed you to put you greasey paws on the controls of MY AIRPLANE. Now there are 3 levers here. Leave'er alone, leave'er alone and leave'er alone. After that the SOB sits in the corner, and doesn't say a goddamn word for the rest of the flight. Just the way it should be, Right guys????

Just kidding, actually.
The one I use is "Up errect, no flags, following the airplane, airspeed zero, compass on taxiway heading (if appropriate) One thing that I dislike and is common with low timers is a long chatty running of the checklist. Action the list, verify and crosscheck with the other pilot by challenging the checklist. Quick, no wasted words, thorough and minimal distraction.

[CH124 Driver]

It depends on your aircraft, for the Sea King I use "needle left, ball right, 3 compases decreasing (BDHI, RMI, Standby), 3 steady (VGI, Alt, and A/S) and TACAN tracking", of course checked both directions.

istp, that brings back some memories. Sault College Class of 2000.

[ahramin]

I just make sure they are all working properly.

[wha happen]

make sure they are all there

[complexintentions]

I'm usually too busy pulling the plastic Jesus out of the flight bag to put on the glareshield to do a bunch of checks.

[CH124 Driver]

One should just do the checks and not "babble" a la Sault school of Bafflegab" a simple "intruments check OK" will keep the cockpit quiet so you can hear such things as "hold short" and othe stuff that can get you dead!. When these "babble mouths" have come for pre-hire check rides and insist on commenting on the normall I call a power loss, and without eception they miss it and try to fly with that thing on the frount parked, most airlines have a policy of a quiet flight deck below ten thousand feet, this policy extends to checks, keep them short and simple!

Sorry dude, it's not just the Sault. The entire CF does it that way too. Sweet @#$! all would get accomplished if we never talked below 10,000 ft since we never go above it. It's called crew concept, both pilots are listening to the radio and it's really quite simple to hear the radio, wait for it, by shutting the @#$! up when you hear your call sign. Besides, the 20 seconds that you're talking are quite insignificant compared to when you're jacking up your new co-pilot for 2 or more minutes. Power loss on the instrument check? OH SHIT! We're still on the ground!

[Cat Driver]

" a simple "intruments check OK" will keep the cockpit quiet "

Right on Clunckdriver.

This new age bafflegab B.S. really makes me wonder who the morons are who keep thinking up all this crap.

Some of the JAR trained guys I get to fly with take more of my time trying to deprogram them and train them to actually fly the airplane than it would take to trian someone right off the street.

They came up with a check list for the Cat that would take the whole NASA crew to go through last year, when I told them it was overkill they got real paranoid and said it was required by the CAA....I said f.ck the CAA they are not qualified to make decisions on how to operate this airplane...anyhow rather than argue with them I have retrained them....once we got to operating on the water the light went on in their brains and they found out that CRM with two pilots with their heads in the cockpit reading a overkill checklist while taxing on the water is not the same as using a parking brake....

So guess what? The director of flight operationa and the CAA check pilot brought me a new very shortened check list last week all on their own.. I just smiled when they said that even their short version was still to long and would I have a look and suggest how to make it better....f.ck I tried to give them a proper one last year, but they are learning.

..There is still hope on this planet that some will grasp reality.

Oh, by the way the JAR check pilot did his annual prof ride with me a few days ago and did fairly well considering how few hours he has on the Cat.

Ya just gotta love this f.ckin industry those as.holes at 800 Burrard wouldn't let me run a operation with a couple of Cessna 150's yet I can train and do check rides on the CAA Inspectors in Europe where the rules and requirements are way more difficult than Canada....not to mention that I got my Airdisplay Authorization renewed again this year...yup ya gotta just love this business.

Cat

[monkeyspankmasterflex]

I'm usually too busy pulling the plastic Jesus out of the flight bag to put on the glareshield to do a bunch of checks.

...classic

Like Clunkmaster said, if you say the nursery rhyme in your head it'll keep things nice and quiet like, checks should't get in the way of your primary task.

[Pugster]

To further boost the argument - how many airplanes do you fly where an "engine gauges" check is accomplished by reading out every dial on the panel? Who thought up that we had to do that with the flight instruments?

I'd say an easy way would be to say "instruments check in the _____ turn" or something like that. That may keep the student from just trying to do it when the aircraft is rolling straight ahead which may not show instrument problems.

I'm glad this post took the turns that it did - this is a great example of the flight training world not reflecting what actually happens once you start working in a larger aircraft...and shouldn't it prepare the students for that?

[Pugster]

Clunck;

To answer your question, I'm still fresh in my first FO job on a BE20 - and I've already arranged to go back to my old flight school and give a talk to all the commercial students (I was involved in a diploma program where I taught) regarding what it's like once they actually start working in an airplane. IMHO, they need to know the role that they'll be playing in their first turbine or real IFR job, and that just isn't being taught in the schools right now.

The fight is not lost - but until transport realizes that it's a brave new world out there (and has been for a long time!), I can't see things changing. Dead reckoning? Lets teach it, but come on now - testing it on the commercial? And no GPS testing on the commercial (or the IFR for that matter...)? Ah, the things that used to drive me nuts when I was an instructor...

[Cat Driver]

Pugster :

Flight training will always remain in the dark ages as long as it is controlled by TC. There is no motivation within TC to change anything for the simple reason they don't have to do anything except protect their job and retirement plan.

What is needed is to turn flight training over to the holders of teaching licenses and then let the market sort out the good product from the bad.

As it is now there is no choice for the student because TC is keeping the industry locked firmly in the dark ages.

As a freelance, contract teacher I am free to set my own syallbus and conduct the training based on the needs of each individual.

With only two goals, to attain safety and turning out a superior product it puts me in a very high paid position...

...remember the market will determine who is the preferred place to go.

Cat

[Hedley]

Ah yes, the infamous Transport hand-propper who violated CAR 602.10 and 602.01, destroyed an aircraft, and no charges were laid. His initials are W.F. correct?

Want to know something funny? He's been running around lately telling everbody what a dangerous pilot I am!

He's obviously something of an authority on dangerous pilots, but I'm afraid I really can't measure up to him

Then there were the Transport pilots in the King Air that forgot to put the gear down, whacked the props on the runway at Gatineau, then elected not to land at Gatineau and instead fly over populated Ottawa with an unknown amount of severe damage to land at CYOW. That's as clear a violation of CAR 602.01 that I've ever heard of. No charges were laid (surprise).

Then there was the Transport 182 that whacked a prop. A Transport helicopter flew in a new prop, they bolted it on and flew away. Tear the engine down after a prop strike? Nah, only the private sector needs to do that.

The list goes on, and on, and on.

There's an old saying that when a cop is kicked off the force, if a civilian had done it, he would have gone to jail. Same old.

[Isis]

I'm relatively new to the instructing scene, but the way I see it, is that I have two kinds of students: those that are interested in a career, and those that just want the ability to enjoy the blue yonder.

I try my best to gear the lessons towards my students' goals.

That being said, I (and most instructors) cannot read minds! My students are encouraged to tell me what they are doing or what they are thinking about. If they cannot say it (chatter on the radio) they will point. That way I know what they are thinking about.

As for a rolling instrument check, it can be done the same way:

"needle right, ball left, heading increasing, attitude steady, compass free and swinging and tracking (ADF)" *point to the appropriate instruments instead of saying it*

On the roll: "confirm full power, airspeed alive, enging instruments green: *again, one can point rather than say anything*

As an instructor I'm a little more at ease knowing what my students are thinking.

IMHO

- Isis

[rotateandfly]

i fully agree isis

[Cat Driver]

" On the roll: "confirm full power, airspeed alive, enging instruments green: *again, one can point rather than say anything* "

I have a Cessna 150 that if the student spent that much time with his / her head inside the airplane it is quite likely they would lose control of it and wrap it in up in a ball.

So which would be most important, maintaing directional control on take off or diverting their attention inside looking for relatively unimportant information?

I have noticed that there is more and more babbling going on in airplanes resulting in trance like mantras that divert the mind from the obvious.

Making the relatively simple complex results in a degrading of the handling skills needed to accurately guide the aircraft at any given time.

Simple basic trainers are not complex machines...maybe we would have a better level of aircraft handling skills with less bafflegab?

Cat

[. ._]

Good points, Cat. You don't need an airspeed indicator to take off, and if the motor is going VROOOM, and not pop or kablam, or putt putt, that's probably good enough. I'd rather be looking for my rejection point and centerline than the rpm gauge. But then again, I don't know shit- yet.

-istp