Info for Wabusk Air

[Teamflyer]

Greetings everyone,

I am going to Moosoone for Wabusk Air and would like some info for the ramp position there.
Anyone on this forum currently with Wabusk or used to be that could send me a PM?
I was wondering who I should look for or contact when I get there, I'm really interested in this company and would like to get started there. Any other information such as living accomodations, and which is the cheapest motel, etc. would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance!

TF

[Go Juice]

Bring some lube cuz you sure will get fkcud!

[Cisbour]

Welcome to Moosonee Ontario:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2AQ8yUJ2xs

[Rudder Bug]

You're asking for a cheap motel, hum..the Polar Bear Lodge maybe? Some say 65 a day, some say 125. Some say it's nice, some say it's crappy. I don't know, I've never been in Moosonee for more than one hour but I have an idea of what it can be.

Are you sure the employer is not providing a place to stay? The cheapest "motel" is likely to cost you much more than your earnings. Think twice...Google it and read about the place.

Good luck if you go!

RB

[cj555]

I have some freinds who worked there (started on the ramp). One is now with AC (he was up there for 3 years, then one jump for 2 years and now AC). So it is possible.

I heard that the biggest frustration was being on the ramp for 8 months, and then they would hire a direct entry F/O right over their head and and they would have to wait longer for a flying position. But sometimes thats just the way it is when someone quits unexpectedly and they need to fill a position asap. You gotta be prepared for that, and be prepared to spend a few years up there.

[Lost Lake]

I have some freinds who worked there (started on the ramp). One is now with AC (he was up there for 3 years, then one jump for 2 years and now AC). So it is possible.

I heard that the biggest frustration was being on the ramp for 8 months, and then they would hire a direct entry F/O right over their head and and they would have to wait longer for a flying position. But sometimes thats just the way it is when someone quits unexpectedly and they need to fill a position asap

. You gotta be prepared for that, and be prepared to spend a few years up there.

Um, isn't that the reason for rampies. When an f/o leaves or gets promoted, another rampie moves up. It takes 5 days to do training and indoc for an f/o. Are you saying that they found an f/o who was experienced? Doesn't really make sense. Moosonee isn;t the end of an f/o's adventure, it is a starting place. IMHO

[cj555]

Are you saying that they found an f/o who was experienced? Doesn't really make sense. Moosonee isn;t the end of an f/o's adventure, it is a starting place. IMHO

Yes, an experienced F/O was hired right over their heads and they were left on the ramp longer. I don't know the exact circumstances as to why, and I don't know if that is a regular occurance there, but thats what happened.

Since I wasn't there, I can't say why they did that. Maybe there was a good reason, maybe not. I'm just stating what happened.

[Lost Lake]

Sure is a great morale booster though. Bust your ass for 8 months for the company in beautiful Moosonee. Them watch some "high time" F/O walk in and take what should of been yours. Welcome to commercial aviation. Maybe you should have waxed as well as washed the bosses car.

[spaner]

How about a ramp bond.

If you decide to parachute an F/O into my position, I get 5grand to go and buy the PPC that I should have earned by working on your ramp/dock for 8 months for little to no pay, living with 6 other guys and eating KD.

Ho, ya, and that's a TWO YEAR ramp bond.

We do it to ourselves....

[Jack Klumpus]

From my experience. I made the trek to hand my resume more than 10 years ago, only to take it back from him (owner), after he laughed at my 200 hours, and said he turns guys with 2,500hrs down for right hand seat on a ho. The guy's like school on Sundays, no class.

[Doc]

Sure is a great morale booster though. Bust your ass for 8 months for the company in beautiful Moosonee. Them watch some "high time" F/O walk in and take what should of been yours. Welcome to commercial aviation. Maybe you should have waxed as well as washed the bosses car.

Sorry to say it. BUT JUST WTF makes you think "it should have been your.". This sense of "entitlement" makes me sick. You took a job on the "RAMP". Though shit!! This is why I preach against working ramps. Welcome to REALITY!

[Doc]

Are there pilots dumb enough to spend 30K of daddy's money and take ramp jobs in an armpit like YMO? NO sympathy here. I pity da fools!

[Doc]

How about a ramp bond.

If you decide to parachute an F/O into my position, I get 5grand to go and buy the PPC that I should have earned by working on your ramp/dock for 8 months for little to no pay, living with 6 other guys and eating KD.

Ho, ya, and that's a TWO YEAR ramp bond.

We do it to ourselves....

Did anybody hold a gun to these pilot's heads to take the job?

[Rudder Bug]

That's a shit show indeed Doc.

I was approached by him years ago, not for the ramp but for the day/night VFR single pilot gig in the Ho cause I'm an old fart TOO. I came close to gear up and go, but....

I got lucky in the last minute. Something else happened and I went somewhere else. Thanks Gods.

It is an ideal gig for a Local with a place to stay and good parents but very questionable for a foreigner.

My input.

[Lost Lake]

Sure is a great morale booster though. Bust your ass for 8 months for the company in beautiful Moosonee. Them watch some "high time" F/O walk in and take what should of been yours. Welcome to commercial aviation. Maybe you should have waxed as well as washed the bosses car.

Sorry to say it. BUT JUST WTF makes you think "it should have been your.". This sense of "entitlement" makes me sick. You took a job on the "RAMP". Though shit!! This is why I preach against working ramps. Welcome to REALITY!

Hey Doc. I'm not disagreeing with you, but these poor guys are lured up to some shithole, oops sorry, Moosonee does have a liquor store,with the dream of working their way up to flying. Like I said, not a big deal to upgrade someone on a HO. They are young and innocent, just starting out in the world, and some asshole dangles a carrot infront of their virgin noses, promising them a chance to work their way up in the company. Like you, I started my career off behind the controls. I am now working at a company where new hires start on the ramp. I see the hope and dreams in their eyes, and for eveyone of them who deserves it, I wish them the best. I have 2 kids starting off in the work world, and I see the hopes and dreams in their eyes as they try to pursue their non flying careers.

I know you don't like it, but the times have changed. Like I've posted many times before, it's as much the fault of the puppy mill colleges pumping out an excess of new pilots as anything. The only other option for most of these newbies is to spend more money building time, or work elsewhere until there is a shortage, which is an oxymoron, since there will never be a shortage in Canada of new pilots.Nobody flies with a map and compass or a wiz wheel wheel anymore. It's GPS. Times are a changin. I really feel bad for the young ones who HAVE worked hard in this new economy.

[cj555]

Sorry to say it. BUT JUST WTF makes you think "it should have been yours". This sense of "entitlement" makes me sick. You took a job on the "RAMP". Though shit!! This is why I preach against working ramps. Welcome to REALITY!

If working on the ramp as an entry into flying is such a bad idea, what is a better way (besides instructing)? What companies hire fresh CPL's with 200 hrs? I had the impression that either you're extremely lucky and get a F/O job right away, or you work on the ramp as an avenue to enter into flying. Working in the ramp is a way to prove yourself to your employer. I thought this was how the industry works: that everyone has to "pay their dues."

For example:
As a new CPL, what would be a better option: Get on a ramp job asap with the hopes of moving up to a flying job within 6 months to a year, or hold out and wait until you get offered an actual flying job (which might take longer, depends how lucky you are I guess). In my mind, if working on the ramp gives me better odds of flying sooner, I'd take that. But then you have to deal with the possibility that you won't get the next flying job (ie that they might hire a direct entry F/O over your head). This is a tough industry!

[goleafsgo]

If you look at their website they want 500TT for navajo FO but they hire low-time guys for the ramp. I guess if they have an application from a 500 hour guy and have a need for an FO that they'll go to him first?

[DanWEC]

A while back I visited there. They fly a lot, but, without going into detail, I was very unimpressed by the owner and didn't want to be involved in the kind of carrot dangling he was spewing, nor did I feel like washing his truck every day while my actual flying skills slowly disappeared.
Though I was nervous about walking away (What do I know as a new pilot??), I felt extremely validated a month later.....one of his pilots was being touted by the owner as having the best job in the world, though the pilot barely acknowledged this by a grunt in the hall as he walking by.

So what happened? Well I got hired at an airline a month later, and I was helping out with hiring. The very same pilot's resume came through the fax machine...desperate to get out of there. I did my best to make sure it went straight through to HR.

[Rowdy]

Its pretty easy to put an end to a lot of the poor treatment and BS in this industry. As well as the terrible attitudes exuded by so many owners and managers. We SHOULD be much more proffesional and organized than the grunts that run heavy equipment, swing hammers and glue pipes together. We SHOULD be pushing for change to the federal aviation regs in regards to safety and a proper work/life balance. Its happening elsewhere. Why arent we making these changes? why? Give me a reason better than 'because pilots have big egos and are independant'. Give me something other than 'because we love flying airplanes'. My girlfriend laughed when she found out with just a years worth of schooling, she makes more money working four (count that FOUR) 8hr days in a nice climate controlled office, with proper staffing, benefits and proper overtime.

Do you all enjoy working right to the bullshit 14hr duty day 5 days a week? does everyone like that with only 8hrs prone rest you can be essentially forced back to work. (btw- recently heard from a good friend who was told he'd be canned if he wasnt back on the flightline in 8hrs.. he's looking for a new job now.. good on em)

TC only requires 3 off in 30 what kind of insanity is that? What about the fact that its federally regulated and wages can be set anywhere. The rules and treatment are archaic. You certainly dont see electricians or plumbers doing this...

Why are we working piles of overtime for a salary or bare bones day rate? Mileage should be out and out illegal. We should be paid hourly from the second we walk in the door til the second we leave at the end of the day. Why are guys going north for insanely shitty pay in the worst conditions? This isnt the pioneer days.. this isnt the wild west.

Seeing threads like this and hearing the stories from operations and operators like this truly makes my stomach churn. Instead of burning each other, we should be promoting changes and improvements. C'mon MAN!

We are our own worst enemies and its time we all stood up and stopped this poor treatment. End Rant.

[Lost Lake]

It's been said before Rowdy. Unfortunately, and I don't have statistcs of how many, but there are a lot of new CPL's who don't know about AvCanada. It took me a year after my PPL, to learn about COPA. It's only in the last few years I found about AvCanada. How can you expect some fresh greenhorn to make positive decisions, if they are unaware of an employer's reputation. Like I'v said, too many new pilots, not enough low time positions. Maybe a 2 or 3 year moratorium on CPL's would change things.

Oops, all the coleges would have to park their planes and layoff instructors.

[Doc]

Oops, all the coleges would have to park their planes and layoff instructors.

I've heard of far worse ideas?

[Rowdy]

Naw.. just limit the number of CPL's issued every year and add a mandatory 'industry preperation' course as a requirement in ALL of the college programs country wide. Taught by mid time pilots still active in aviation (ie; not at AC or WJ where they're so far removed from the rest of the industry) That would certainly create some revenue/jobs and inform the fresh folk how this drivel of an industry actually should work!

[Teamflyer]

Well, I'm glad I didn't go to moosonee.... thank the lord

[Chuck Finley]

well that was random!!

[Radiohead]

well that was random!!

What? That an original poster would finally follow up and conclude a thread? I think it's nice to see the OP following up, and adding a conclusion. In this case they're happy they didn't go to Wabusk, and since the original post was asking about what he or she needed in order to get set up in Moosonee, I think it's entirely appropriate for him or her to add a hindsight perspective, and is likely useful to others looking at taking up with such a shady operator.

Don't need to jump on every single person in every single situation for raising a thread from the dead.