Barkley-Grow

This forum has been developed to discuss Bush Flying & Specialty Air Service topics.

Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore, Rudder Bug

Antique Pilot
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 538
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:52 pm

Re: Barkley-Grow

Post by Antique Pilot »

Here are the significant dates for BJW as published in a directory by the CAHS:

CF-BJW serial # 203

21.8.39 Fleet Aircraft Ltd, Fort Erie Ont
.42 Lease to CPAL Winnipeg, Man
3.11.42 Transferred to RCAF
1.9.44 Transferred back to Fleet Aircraft but Not Taken Up
12.5.45 Temporary Certificate to Austin Airways
6.10.46 Damaged by fire at O'Sullivan Lake, Ont
---------- ADS -----------
 
Moose47
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1346
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:45 pm
Location: Home of Canada's Air Defence

Re: Barkley-Grow

Post by Moose47 »

G'day

CF-BJW was taken on strength with the Royal Canadian Air Force on the 9th of September, 1939. It was given the serial number 758. This aircraft served with the Communications Flight at R.C.A.F. Station Ottawa. It was struck off strength with the R.C.A.F. on the 20th of November, 1941 and sold to Maritime Central Airways.

Cheers...Chris
---------- ADS -----------
 
Antique Pilot
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 538
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:52 pm

Re: Barkley-Grow

Post by Antique Pilot »

Moose47,

Hmmm...are you sure? I looked at the history of every Fleet Freighter and can't find any mention of one going to MCA. I got my info straight from the CAHS. One thing is certain, BJW was in Prince Albert Sask in the 1940's when Collin Campbell was working for CPAL.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Antique Pilot
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 538
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:52 pm

Re: Barkley-Grow

Post by Antique Pilot »

Moose47 wrote:G'day

CF-BJW was taken on strength with the Royal Canadian Air Force on the 9th of September, 1939. It was given the serial number 758. This aircraft served with the Communications Flight at R.C.A.F. Station Ottawa. It was struck off strength with the R.C.A.F. on the 20th of November, 1941 and sold to Maritime Central Airways.

Cheers...Chris
You are referring to a Barkley Grow CF-BMV not Fleet Freighter CF-BJW.
After it's RCAF service as #758 it went back to CF-BMV and was indeed sold to MCA.
On Dec 23, 1942 it sank off the east coast of Greenland after a forced landing on ice flows. Pilot Jimmy Wade and crew were rescued.

AP
---------- ADS -----------
 
Moose47
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1346
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:45 pm
Location: Home of Canada's Air Defence

Re: Barkley-Grow

Post by Moose47 »

G'day AP

You are correct. Not sure how I got the two mixed up.

Cheers...Chris
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
GA MX Trainer Dude
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 153
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:36 pm
Location: West Coast

Re: Barkley-Grow

Post by GA MX Trainer Dude »

Here is a photo of the Barkley Grow wing structure - taken in 2007.


Image


Definitely not a simple 2 spar system!!

Mx
---------- ADS -----------
 
You can train a monkey to ride a bicycle but you can't train it to fix it!!!
beech 18
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 752
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:52 pm

Re: Barkley-Grow

Post by beech 18 »

June 05, 2014

Barkley Grow being unloaded in the Antarctic.
Aircraft involved with the U.S. Antarctic Service.

This aircraft may be on the USS Bear that was
sent to the Antarctic in 1939 - 1940.

Photo found on the web.
Unknown photographer.


Image
---------- ADS -----------
 
Antique Pilot
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 538
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:52 pm

Re: Barkley-Grow

Post by Antique Pilot »

beech 18 wrote:June 05, 2014

Barkley Grow being unloaded in the Antarctic.
Aircraft involved with the U.S. Antarctic Service.

This aircraft may be on the USS Bear that was
sent to the Antarctic in 1939 - 1940.

Photo found on the web.
Unknown photographer.


Image
This would be Barkley Grow serial # 7 that was used by Admiral Byrd in his last Antarctic expedition.

AP
---------- ADS -----------
 
Canuck Plumber
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:09 am
Location: Airdrie

Re: Barkley-Grow

Post by Canuck Plumber »

Hello all. New here. Big fan of the T8P-1. I found this pic on Ebay. Some fellow selling models of the Barkely Grow.
Image

A great aircraft.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Last edited by Canuck Plumber on Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Television is like the invention of indoor plumbing. It didn't change people's habits. It just kept them inside the house.
Canuck Plumber
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:09 am
Location: Airdrie

Re: Barkley-Grow

Post by Canuck Plumber »

If anyone's interested, I've started a Barkley Grow fan page over on Facebook.

Cheers.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Television is like the invention of indoor plumbing. It didn't change people's habits. It just kept them inside the house.
Canuck Plumber
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:09 am
Location: Airdrie

Re: Barkley-Grow

Post by Canuck Plumber »

Ok. I did some more digging. Pardon the redundancy of some of this as I noted parts have already been posted by others. I spoke with the curators at the Calgary Aerospace Museum, The Reynolds Museum, and the Edmonton Aircraft Museum. I'm amazed at what I've found so far. I can only imagine what I'll find tomorrow.

So for starters. Everyone assumes that there were 11 T8P-1s built. This is false. There were only 9 units built with the intent to build a tenth until the company had some financial troubles.

CF-BVE sat for years in Moose Jaw. A wing was removed to repair CF-BQM and the remainder was acquired by Harry Whereatt, Assiniboia.

OB-GGK went to Peru and nearly set a world distance record enroute to serve in the Peruvian airforce and was destroyed by a hanger fire in 1942

CF-BVL Crashed after takeoff in 1960 near Peace River. The fuselage was recovered by the Aerospace Museum in Calgary in 1982.

CF-BMG sank near Port Alberni. It was salvaged and scrapped in 1947

CF-BMV is currently sitting under a couple hundred feet of seawater somewhere near a fjord in Greenland. I spoke with a fellow today that said it's been found in remarkable condition but in too deep of water to salvage at this time. No idea of the coordinates.

CF-BMW Parts of might still be sitting near Nettley Manitoba. Some parts were attained by Harry Whereatt.

NC18470 was used in the Byrd expedition to the Antarctic. The salt water did a number on it and it was scrapped due to corrosion. A fellow at the Reynolds museum knows a fellow whos seen it. He said there's really nothing left of it. Noting no MSN number. CF-BVB?

CF-BQM sank near Norway House Manitoba and was salvaged by the Aerospace Museum in Calgary.

CF-BTX (as AP mentioned) crashed east of Grande Cash Alberta and in 1989 was removed by the Aerospace Museum of Calgary.

9 units. Thats it. My guess is that several severely damaged planes (including the CF-BTX) were used to build the three we have here in Alberta today. CF-BLV in is Edmonton, CF BQM is in Calgary, and CF-BVE is in Wetaskawin.

Its also worth noting that Vice Admiral Archibald S Barkley worked along side the Wright brothers which in my opinion places more importance on these underrated aircraft. This company has an amazing story to tell. I'm going to continue looking up more information on the aircraft and the company.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Television is like the invention of indoor plumbing. It didn't change people's habits. It just kept them inside the house.
Antique Pilot
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 538
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:52 pm

Re: Barkley-Grow

Post by Antique Pilot »

Canuck Plumber wrote:Ok. I did some more digging. Pardon the redundancy of some of this as I noted parts have already been posted by others. I spoke with the curators at the Calgary Aerospace Museum, The Reynolds Museum, and the Edmonton Aircraft Museum. I'm amazed at what I've found so far. I can only imagine what I'll find tomorrow.

So for starters. Everyone assumes that there were 11 T8P-1s built. This is false. There were only 9 units built with the intent to build a tenth until the company had some financial troubles.

CF-BVE sat for years in Moose Jaw. A wing was removed to repair CF-BQM and the remainder was acquired by Harry Whereatt, Assiniboia.

OB-GGK went to Peru and nearly set a world distance record enroute to serve in the Peruvian airforce and was destroyed by a hanger fire in 1942

CF-BVL Crashed after takeoff in 1960 near Peace River. The fuselage was recovered by the Aerospace Museum in Calgary in 1982.

CF-BMG sank near Port Alberni. It was salvaged and scrapped in 1947

CF-BMV is currently sitting under a couple hundred feet of seawater somewhere near a fjord in Greenland. I spoke with a fellow today that said it's been found in remarkable condition but in too deep of water to salvage at this time. No idea of the coordinates.

CF-BMW Parts of might still be sitting near Nettley Manitoba. Some parts were attained by Harry Whereatt.

NC18470 was used in the Byrd expedition to the Antarctic. The salt water did a number on it and it was scrapped due to corrosion. A fellow at the Reynolds museum knows a fellow whos seen it. He said there's really nothing left of it. Noting no MSN number. CF-BVB?

CF-BQM sank near Norway House Manitoba and was salvaged by the Aerospace Museum in Calgary.

CF-BTX (as AP mentioned) crashed east of Grande Cash Alberta and in 1989 was removed by the Aerospace Museum of Calgary.

9 units. Thats it. My guess is that several severely damaged planes (including the CF-BTX) were used to build the three we have here in Alberta today. CF-BLV in is Edmonton, CF BQM is in Calgary, and CF-BVE is in Wetaskawin.

Its also worth noting that Vice Admiral Archibald S Barkley worked along side the Wright brothers which in my opinion places more importance on these underrated aircraft. This company has an amazing story to tell. I'm going to continue looking up more information on the aircraft and the company.
Good research CP. Here is a list of the known serial #'s:

# 1: CF-BVE
# 2: OB-GGK to Peru
# 3: CF-BLV
# 4: CF-BMG
# 5 : CF-BMV
# 6: CF-BMW
# 7: NC18470 to Admiral Byrd
# 8: CF-BQM
# 9 ??
# 10 ??
# 11: CF-BTX

Quoting from Walter Henry's article in the CAHS Journal Vol 16, # 3, Fall 1978: "7 of the 11 produced saw service in Canada." I have read other references stating that 11 were produced. So why would they produce serial # 11 but not 9 and 10? I have other references stating that CF-BVB and CF-BLN were allocated to Barkley-Grows being imported to Canada but were "NTU" (not taken up).
Cheers, AP
---------- ADS -----------
 
bmc
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4014
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 10:06 pm
Location: Switzerland

Re: Barkley-Grow

Post by bmc »

I have memories as a kid in the 60's driving up to St.Jerome north of Montreal and seeing a twin parked at an airstrip beside the road in a blue Belvedere paint scheme. Was that a Barkley?
---------- ADS -----------
 
bmc
Canuck Plumber
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:09 am
Location: Airdrie

Re: Barkley-Grow

Post by Canuck Plumber »

Thats what makes this such a great mystery. There are a ton of unanswered questions surrounding both the aircraft and the company.

I've been digging pretty deep starting with the beginning. The Barkley Grow Corp offices are listed in 1937 as being 13210 French Street Detroit Mi. In 1935 its listed as being
The Michigan Aircraft Company. Did they step in and buy out MAC to form a new company. Also, with Archibalds background and connection to the Wright brothers why werent these aircraft more noteable?

As for the two aircraft that were issued production numbers that are missing... I dont know. Cancelled orders?
---------- ADS -----------
 
Television is like the invention of indoor plumbing. It didn't change people's habits. It just kept them inside the house.
Canuck Plumber
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:09 am
Location: Airdrie

Re: Barkley-Grow

Post by Canuck Plumber »

bmc wrote:I have memories as a kid in the 60's driving up to St.Jerome north of Montreal and seeing a twin parked at an airstrip beside the road in a blue Belvedere paint scheme. Was that a Barkley?

Is it the same as the picture posted earlier? If so, yes and it is part of the Calgary collection.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Television is like the invention of indoor plumbing. It didn't change people's habits. It just kept them inside the house.
Canuck Plumber
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:09 am
Location: Airdrie

Re: Barkley-Grow

Post by Canuck Plumber »

Ok, Ive been wracking my brain trying to figure out why there are two planes missing from the history books and why they would skip building production number 9 and 10.

I have a theory.

So your a couple of guys with some serious background in aviation and you hear that the government is looking to contract a manufacturer that can meet their criteria. Lockheed steps up to the plate. Their already a well established company by this time. Beechcraft steps up as well. Another well established company. Then along comes Archibald And Harold.

I don't know much about Harold but Archibald rubbed shoulders with the grand daddy's of aviation, Orville and Wilbur Wright. Not to mention a few other heavy hitters like Curtis Aircraft (et al). These guys had the experience but I doubt they had the same bank roll.

So you start this company to build these beautiful airliners. In order to be competitive you set the price point at around $37,000 to keep up with the competition, but because you're new to the manufacturing scene, your profit margins are razor thin. You set your sights to build 10 units. It's a nice round number. Why would you build 11 units when you don't have any orders. You build your prototype to show people what you can do. If they bought the Michigan Aircraft company, you already have everything laid out for you. You start punching out aircraft.

You start showing people your aircraft but your receiving luke warm approval and the orders aren't coming in. Lockheed won the contract and everyone likes the price point on the Beech better than your model. Problem is you've already committed to build ten units. Things are not working out in your favour.

You start building production number 9 and 10. CF-BVB is halfway complete and you've got a pile of parts ready to begin building production number 10. There's one small problem. You're out of money.

To save yourself and carry things over until AVCO bails your sorry ass out of a sling. You disassemble 9 and 10 and make the final T8P-1 to roll out of 13210 French Road by the Detroit City airport. CF-BTX.

Thoughts?
---------- ADS -----------
 
Television is like the invention of indoor plumbing. It didn't change people's habits. It just kept them inside the house.
beech 18
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 752
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:52 pm

Re: Barkley-Grow

Post by beech 18 »

Sept 21, 2014

Canuck Plumber

Here is a link to an article about the Barkley Grow.
It was in the Dec 24, 1991 issue of Vintage Aircraft.

The story is on page 24 of the magazine.


http://issuu.com/vintageeaa/docs/va-vol ... dec-1991/1
---------- ADS -----------
 
Canuck Plumber
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:09 am
Location: Airdrie

Re: Barkley-Grow

Post by Canuck Plumber »

Wow. Thanks Beech18. I've been looking for a shot of the factory. Brilliant. I wonder if the concrete pad just off of French Road is where the factory used to be.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Television is like the invention of indoor plumbing. It didn't change people's habits. It just kept them inside the house.
Canuck Plumber
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:09 am
Location: Airdrie

Re: Barkley-Grow

Post by Canuck Plumber »

Hey there,

This is meant for AP but worth sharing with everyone.

Image

It reads:

In Memory of Carl Brooks.
Big Game Guide and Outfitter.

On October 24, 1945, after takeoff from Kakwa Lake enroute to Lake Saskatoon with passengers,
Carl Brooks and four American big game hunters, CF-BTX was forced down by engine failure.

All survived except Carl.

Placed here by his sons
Richard, Cecil, Dennis, and Stanley.


This is located near Kakwa Lake. It's a three day hike in. Might hit it up in a couple years once my son gets a bit older. Since the sight is a memorial site, I hope people will respect the place if they go there.

Cheers.

BTW, I'm pretty sure that I'm going out find out that BTX is part of the aircraft in Edmonton.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Television is like the invention of indoor plumbing. It didn't change people's habits. It just kept them inside the house.
User avatar
dogsbodymk1
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:55 pm

Re: Barkley-Grow

Post by dogsbodymk1 »

This is at the Alberta Aviation Museum in Edmonton.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http:/ ... N6Hc4m_GZg


The pictures below were taken in 2012.

Image

Image


Chris
---------- ADS -----------
 
"What young man could possibly be bored
with a uniform to wear,
a fast aeroplane to fly,
and something to shoot at?"
Post Reply

Return to “Bush Flying & Specialty Air Service”