JBS, neither of us are experts on JetBlue's internal operations.
Joe Blow Schmo wrote:
You do know they're alive and well up front, they just landed the plane after all! Evacuating without direction from the cockpit is incredibly dangerous and should only be done in very serious circumstances (i.e. visually on fire or the aircraft broken up). In this case the crew told the tower they were evacuating but then after they were told there was no smoke from the engine they told the tower they would cancel the evacuation. Obviously they hadn't ordered an evac yet because they couldn't stop it after ordering it. It was the tower that told them the passengers were coming down the slides. After landing and coming to a stop it takes a couple of minutes to sort out the situation, run any necessary checklists and/or decide if an evacuation is warranted. FAs are trained to know this and know to wait a couple minutes. If they still don't hear anything they're usually supposed to try to contact the cockpit before taking any action.Evacuation down the slides is and should be a last resort. People are injured on every single evacuation and occasionally people are even killed. Chucking people down the slides is not something you do "just in case".
The other issue here is the flight attendants manually deploying the oxygen masks!! If there were a fire, the last thing you want is oxygen flowing into the cabin! Plus the little yellow cup masks are not sealed to your face so aren't going to keep the smoke out.
It certainly looks like there might be a few internal discussions and new training scenarios within JB after this.
1. Yes in this case that's true, however I wasn't referring to the JB incident specifically. I was talking about in general terms. Sorry for the lack of clarity.
2. No they're not, they're trained very expressed-ly: "NO DOUBT GET OUT." FA's at my airline have as much authority as us to command an evacuation. Of course, common sense dictates and most often prevails as most FA's are very well trained and very smart. Yes there are a few nuts out there who want to be the boss and wouldn't hesitate to make a scene for the heck of it but that's the exception not the rule I've found.
Completely agree about the people getting injured part on the evacuation. However, I would rather see all my passengers get broken bones than for even one to die because I hesitated on ordering an evacuation. The other day I was in the simulator and ran a rejected takeoff procedure for an engine fire. After shutting down I communicated with the FA who told me that there was nothing wrong, no smoke, and the fire fighters were outside fighting the fire. I told her to initiate a rapid deplanement (out the front door) as opposed to an evacuation. The instructor, who had been comfortably napping in the back seat up to this point, upon hearing that woke up and indignantly bellowed "ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! YOU'RE ON FIRE!!!" In our debrief I explained my reasons for my actions-avoiding injuries and keeping people out of the way of the fire fighters and away from the actual fire being among the chief of my reasons. He said to me "you know what? I see your points, and they are well thought out, but you're on fire...just get out! Insurance will cover injuries." Do I agree with him? Yes and no. Everyone is going to have a judgement call to make in that scenerio and everyone will have a different opinion of how to handle it (just the day before a different instructor ran the same drill with me and commended me for the same decision). When it comes down to it, anyone who makes either decision will have to stand in front of a court ruled by public opinion (and this is the part that really irks me) and explain what they did. Hopefully they will be on your side. The important thing is everyone survives.
Also, completely agree on the oxygen mask part being kind of useless but I don't blame the FA's for doing it (Though I do kind of chuckle).
GRK wrote:Dear Jack,
Partially true, but in your example it has to be obvious to the cabin crew that they need to initiate. Uncontrollable fire, fuselage break up, no response or command from the flight deck after an overrun or rejected takeoff being a few of the most imperative. Asiana is the perfect example, (despite the pilots stumbling over a cultural block) But in this case (JB) it was a tad grey perhaps. The aircraft was on it's wheels, the very fact that the CC were shouting BRACE BRACE indicated, to me at least, that the emergency training they receive as well as the briefing from the Captain, (if they ever did get one) is at best, wrong. A single engine landing is an abnormal landing, but at no time would it be considered a reason to shout to brace. That's reserved for a possible crash landing or loss of control after landing. Identification of the smoke made it harder, yes, but I wonder what sort of threat and error system JB uses, do they have any sort of emergency matrix for their crews to use as a guideline to keep the whole crew on the same page? I have a hunch that answer is no. By all accounts from an insider, there is a distinct disconnect aft of the flight deck door. American flight safety culture enables people to challenge traditional methods, which is a good thing, but it needs to also be made clear that proper communication between the FD and an in charge in the back is imperative. Otherwise you'll keep getting wrong procedures applied to simple situations. The "BRACE BRACE" call being the prime example here, it was a wrong procedure which caused confusion and panic.
GRK, I agree, it WAS a tad grey. It's very easy for us to monday morning armchair this situation from our computers with the football game on in the background. However, I can tell you from experience that when the **** hits the fan like this you are NOT always making the same rational decisions you would make on 10 hours of sleep on a day off on a Saturday at the cabin.
I think this should underline the need for flight crews to remind themselves every day "This day COULD be the day I screw up so catastrophically" or "this day COULD be the day I need to be on my game to make some good decisions...." I guarentee you that the Asiana FO was not thinking "boy today could be the day I need to speak up and call my captain out...am I prepared to do that? No? I better stay home." Nor was the KLM captain at Tenerife thinking "Boy, today could be the day I am so rushed that I take off without clearance and kill 500 people." Nor was his FO thinking "today is the day I might have to put my reputation out on the line by calling out a very senior captain to save some lives." I'll end this tangent here. Obviously, it's impossible to get up every morning and think up of every scenerio that could happen and mentally prepare yourselves, but do everything you can to be on your A game! People have paid good money for you to take care of them and their families. They deserve it, and from what I've seen, there are still a lot of crews not putting in their best effort day in and day out.
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