GA needs new blood!

[Shiny Side Up]

Was at a fly in on the weekend, and I think I was the third youngest person there. I say third youngest since the only two youths were the students I brought with me. Saying I'm young for the crowd is also saying something, I think the average age there was in the 60+ range. Not that there's anything wrong with old people, but definitely there wasn't the attendance there that it could have been. Not even any kids there.

I guess I'm after that we really need to make more of an effort. Drag the kids out, get them involved. By Kids, I mean anyone under the age of 30. All the flying clubs and events people got going on really got to make more of an effort, otherwise they're going to grow up into NIMBY's and shut the whole lot down.

Just as an illustrative point, there was more talk there about the possible attendees that have been lost over the year than the gaining of new ones. Its going to die out if we're not careful!

I'm also a little bit cheesed that only a few made an effort to make the new blood feel welcome to the event, it really had the feel of an old farts club meeting. That's really got to change.

[Chris M]

Is there any place online that keeps track of fly-in events? I'd love to attend one, I just never know when/where they're happening.

[Shiny Side Up]

I wish there was a section of this forum for posting aviation events, since most don't fall under the category of airshows, and frequently get lost in the General Comments section.

[ahramin]

What about socialflight?

[Shiny Side Up]

What about socialflight?

Is that a website or are you suggesting a new forum title?

[ahramin]

http://www.avweb.com/topics/social-flight.html

http://www.socialflight.com

[CpnCrunch]

I'm also a little bit cheesed that only a few made an effort to make the new blood feel welcome to the event, it really had the feel of an old farts club meeting. That's really got to change.

It just takes a bit of effort. Three Hills does it right - they have coffee and buns at their monthly fly-ins (and the cheapest avgas in Alberta), and there is always someone who greets all the visitors. Their fly-in is the first Saturday of the month and they usually have 10 or 20 planes flying in on a sunny day.

Another (now defunct club) I went to, everyone just went silent when I walked in.

[FOD_Vacuum]

60+ eh, probably all the A/C retirees reminiscing about the old days and buying piper cubs etc with their hard earned pension.. you gotta remember, we don't get paid much at all in the first 10 years of our career, so not many can afford to take part in a fly in with our own aircraft we cant afford. Not to mention, trying to get a day off for "pleasure flying" would result in management laughing at you while throwing your next weeks work itinerary at you. Unless you want to rent a 172 from the local flying club instead of half months ration of KD, then most of us youngsters don't see the point in going to a fly in. Don't get me wrong, Id love to go to one and have pancakes. If someone would like to put me on their insurance and let me borrow their aircraft for the day that'd be great!

[Shiny Side Up]

It just takes a bit of effort.

That's all I'm saying, consider it a call to arms for more effort to be made.

you gotta remember, we don't get paid much at all in the first 10 years of our career,

I know, hence why those farther into their careers, or at the end got to ramp up the effort to make sure, when the following generation has the money to be shouldering the burden of supporting GA that they are already steeped in it. An effort across the board has to be made. If you're someone going to a fly in, try to make sure your seats are filled. More wrangling of younger "volunteers" - press gang style if necessary, should be done.

I'm into stuff today because my Dad hauled me out of bed when I was a surly teen, and now I thank him for it. Sometimes the kids need a push.

The kids were taking selfies in front of an A-26 the other day, I trust it will end up on facebook and you can't buy that kind of interest! We need more of it!

[Shiny Side Up]

http://www.avweb.com/topics/social-flight.html

http://www.socialflight.com

Hmmm, it seems to be US only, It wouldn't accept my location as one in Canada. Great idea though.

[ScottS]

I was happy to see Victoria Flying Club crawling with "youngsters" when I flew in on Saturday. I say "youngsters" because I am only 34 myself so perhaps my passengers and I were fitting in with the crowd when viewed from afar.

[cap41]

The problem is it is cost prohibitive. Yes, some people live to fly, and will do anything to fly. thats the .001 %. You want to appeal to the masses prices have to be cheaper.

[Tom H]

From my eyes...

The big problem is that kids (under 15) simply are not exposed to it anymore.

They simply have zero exposure, hence no desire:
- Rarely on the TV in a positive light
- Seen as expensive
- Airports out of town
- Fenced off
- Unwelcoming (too common)

Often those that do get involved (all ages) find:
- Scared off by high costs
- Poor customer relations
and a combination of the other factors above.

The COPA and EAA kids programs are a big help and kudos to those that make them work

But it is really going to take some effort to get new people of all ages in and it starts with
public perception and awareness.

Which will take effort from everyone

Tom H

[Tom H]

The problem is it is cost prohibitive. Yes, some people live to fly, and will do anything to fly. thats the .001 %. You want to appeal to the masses prices have to be cheaper.

With regards to recreational flying...

I've compared notes with folks that boat (including fishing), ski, golf and other hobbies.

Once the license is out of the way the costs aren't far off.

Tom H

[ahramin]

http://www.avweb.com/topics/social-flight.html

http://www.socialflight.com

Hmmm, it seems to be US only, It wouldn't accept my location as one in Canada. Great idea though.

I'm not positive but I believe all of our flyins in BC are on there. If so no reason AB would be excluded.

[New_PIC]

I just tried registering at socialflight and it seemed to work fine. It found my local airport and town, and showed me some upcoming events in Alberta and elsewhere.

Though I'm not a COPA member I did volunteer recently at one of their COPA for Kids events. Great fun and lots of big smiles all around!

[Shiny Side Up]

Hmm, maybe its my browser or something, kept telling me everything was not found.

[xchox]

CYQT had an excellent flying club. If you go upstairs in NOASARA's Attic you will find all the old trophys and plaques of yesteryear! Really sad actually.

[Pavese]

.

[fleet16b]

The problem is it is cost prohibitive. Yes, some people live to fly, and will do anything to fly. thats the .001 %. You want to appeal to the masses prices have to be cheaper.

You hit the nail on the head.
I am 52 yrs old and am usually one of the younger people that attend the fly ins I go to.
Young people simply cannot afford to learn to fly at todays rates.
The costs to get a PPL is way out of hand . Its set up as if every student is gearing towards their commercial
If you look at the PPL course , there is plenty of room to trim it and make it more affordable.
This is why we now have the RPP but unfortunately TC dropped the ball on this one.
The RPP does not allow cross border flying and most people want to be able to do this hence they have to go PPL
There is absolutely no reason why RPP pilots should not be able to do cross border flying but it may be FAA thats preventing it.
Another problem is the Flying Schools. I constantly hear from students that the Schools discourage the RPP course
Why is this ......because the school will make less money ?

[FenderManDan]

Expensive - Yes
Appears too dangerous, for today "bubble safe" standards - Yes
Takes too long to get licensed - Yes
Airports too far from places where younger people live - Yes
Friendly but not too interesting crowds for the young at the fly in - Yes

Above are only some of the apparent reasons things are going the way are going.
Things went bad many years ago in regards to flying and It might be a little too late to reverse. I am not seeing this as the glass half-full or half-empty just realism through talking to youngsters.

Maybe we should look at the issue the different way and appeal to the younger crowd. For instance
flying is NOT that special any more to young. There are million of different things to distract. My parents for instance
were amazed by cars and TVs. Me, not so much just a given "normal". I am amazed by planes, my kids not so much,
just a given "normal". They have been flying since they were infants.

If you had an 18 y/o with the part time job and the school work. Would they spend their few hundred bucks earned on one hour rental c172 or shiny new iSomething?

I participate in the EAA young eagles program and love it, but it is not enough. Things like involving the kids to build a flying plane kits in schools, visiting airports and live demos how plane works would probably help.

[D for Delux]

Young pilots are on theer road trips looking for a slave position on the corner of butt.....you get it.
Young pilots are either working, or looking for work, or working on their MIFR....
I'm sure they'd love to own a plane, have avgas money to fly it somewhere for tea, and have the time to do so....however, it is far from feasible.
And getting worse!
DFD

[Pop n Fresh]

This is giving me flashbacks to 1993.

I was finding it too expensive trying to get my license and ratings. The C-310 cost nearly $200 dual, going to be tough affording to rent it for a trip to gain some multi pic time. The Internet was for geeks at a time everyone hated them.

I went to the COPA gathering here in Calgary and the guys were mostly in their 60s. They were quite nice but told me. "You don't want join us and buy a plane. You're training for a CPL. It's expensive and you'll be doing most of your flying for your career."

[Shiny Side Up]

Another problem is the Flying Schools. I constantly hear from students that the Schools discourage the RPP course
Why is this ......because the school will make less money ?

No, because ninety percent of people who come for a license should get a RPP with what ultimately they're planning to do, but go for a PPL because they dream big when it comes to flying. It should be said that most young people who come are considering a CPL, so then in that case the RPP ->PPL -> CPL costs them more money. One should also say that a lot of new students view the lower license as less of an achievement, and oddly enough most would rather not complete a PPL than complete a RPP.

Just like when people buy airplanes, 99% of private flyers would be satisfied with a reasonably affordable two seater for 99% of their flying, but buy around the once a year trip that they won't be able to do their whole lives. Most aviation neophytes can't afford to own a Cherokee six or a Cessna 206 to fit that "need".

One of the problems that I see is teh view in this thread that to participate in aviation, you need to have your own plane. This is a problem. It is something I see with flying clubs since it becomes very cliquish with who has airplanes and who hasn't. There are a lot of ways to participate without flying, and especially for the younger crowd, so that when they have the money in the future they will spend it to participate. Its this longer view that GA needs to take. Sometime these people who can't afford to fly are going to be able to, and they need to be prepped for when they get there. You don't need to fly in to a fly in after all, and there's always lots of things to do at them since they require unlimited volunteers. At the last one I went to, since the weather wasn't that great, most people drove in. That's a lot of empty SUV seats. The airplanes that did come, I was the only one I noticed who had passengers.

IF you want to increase the numbers you got to think of all the small ways to get people in. I was surprised that there was no kids there. None. No one under the age of 12. Place should have been crawling with them!

Expensive - Yes

But not that much comparitively, as some of the parents are finding out. Hockey and Horses, two of the main things around here aren't cheap.

Appears too dangerous, for today "bubble safe" standards - Yes

This will only deter the people who are already not interested and never will be. Not losing any converts on this.

Takes too long to get licensed - Yes

Depends on how you do it or your perspective. PPLs average 2 months to a year for any reasonable student. Not sure how long people want it to be.

Airports too far from places where younger people live - Yes

Airports and flight training are often closer than you think, but unfortunately people focus on big airports rather than looking around small airports. This is something anyone who operates out of a small aerodrome needs to increase their community's awareness of what's there.

Friendly but not too interesting crowds for the young at the fly in - Yes

This is part of my point though, its the old story if you have rabbits you can make lots of rabbits, but if you have no rabbits, you can't make any. When there's no one at these things of their own age group, its hard for people to get talking. It needs to make an effort to get the initial attendees, and the more there are, it just takes off from there. But if you get no initials, there won't be future ones.

If you had an 18 y/o with the part time job and the school work. Would they spend their few hundred bucks earned on one hour rental c172 or shiny new iSomething?

I know some who are doing that right now. Its there if you give them the right encouragement. But you do have to spend the effort wisely. If I was to take a group of kids, I would probably pick a handful whom could be identified as "going to benefit aviation". This is one of the other things that anyone interested in increasing the membership of GA should think about. Don't net them in, reel in the ones who are going to bite.

[CpnCrunch]

Just like when people buy airplanes, 99% of private flyers would be satisfied with a reasonably affordable two seater for 99% of their flying, but buy around the once a year trip that they won't be able to do their whole lives. Most aviation neophytes can't afford to own a Cherokee six or a Cessna 206 to fit that "need".

Out of curiosity, how often do you have more than yourself and one other person in that 180 you fly?

One of the problems that I see is teh view in this thread that to participate in aviation, you need to have your own plane. This is a problem. It is something I see with flying clubs since it becomes very cliquish with who has airplanes and who hasn't. There are a lot of ways to participate without flying, and especially for the younger crowd, so that when they have the money in the future they will spend it to participate. Its this longer view that GA needs to take. Sometime these people who can't afford to fly are going to be able to, and they need to be prepped for when they get there. You don't need to fly in to a fly in after all, and there's always lots of things to do at them since they require unlimited volunteers. At the last one I went to, since the weather wasn't that great, most people drove in. That's a lot of empty SUV seats. The airplanes that did come, I was the only one I noticed who had passengers.

I used to own my own plane. Then my income dropped, I was worried about scary maintenance costs, and realised I didn't really need to own a plane all by myself. Since then I've managed to fly through flying clubs and renting other people's planes. It currently costs me about $100/hr wet to fly a 150, and I have no other costs. If I ever buy another plane I'll rent it out to other non-psycho pilots to reduce my costs. I was originally put off renting my plane out because the first person I met who wanted to rent other people's planes told me that he didn't think it was a problem flying at night without a night rating. Also he promised to pay me for part of the gas on our demo flight, but I never saw a penny of that. Since then I've met quite a few pilots who I would actually trust. Still, I'd never get into an actual partnership as there are too many potential problems.