Young Eagles mid-air in Buffalo, 2 dead, 2 survive

[Napoleon So Low]

I am sorry to be the one to post this, a Searey and a 172:

http://wivb.com/2014/09/27/planes-invol ... -aviation/

http://www.rochesterhomepage.net/story/ ... 4zKo88iYlg

[halfmilevis]

... This just sucks!!

[darbel]

Terrible

[eastpilot]

This is horribly sad.
I sure hope this doesn't weigh too heavily on the hopeful youngins waiting for a ride!

[Johnny#5]

Brutal. It may have had nothing to do with it however, I would never-in-a-million-years let my kid get into a plane with a 78 year old pilot.

[halfmilevis]

At face value I would agree...

[trampbike]

would never-in-a-million-years let my kid get into a plane with a 78 year old pilot.

What about a 91 year old pilot? http://vimeo.com/80041004

[Cat Driver]

At the age of 78 Bob Hoover was one of the best pilots in the world and flew an airdisplay that was stunning.

[trampbike]

Not good enough for Johnny#5 though.

[phillyfan]

I would not let my kids ride with a private pilot, in a homebuilt or with a 78 year old. Don't really care how great Bob Hoover was, or is.

[AirFrame]

I would not let my kids ride with a private pilot, in a homebuilt or with a 78 year old. Don't really care how great Bob Hoover was, or is.

Better buy an inflatable bubble for them before they hurt themselves.

[Shiny Side Up]

78 year old pilot? No problems. Private pilot? A little more wary. Home built aircraft without knowing a lot more about the builder and how its cared for? Not a chance in hell. I'm an EAA member and I think there should be a little more care that goes on around these events. As someone with a bit of knowledge I can keep myself somewhat risk mitigated around those things, but they really shouldn't be used to fly around the unsuspecting public.

While the SeaRey looks like a reasonable plane (seen one, haven't flown one), like most homebuilts if you got to be in an accident you're much safer in a certified airplane.

[Cat Driver]

I learn something new all the time here.

I guess I had better quit taking passengers in case I crash.

At what age should you quit carrying passengers due to being to old?

[Heliian]

While the SeaRey looks like a reasonable plane (seen one, haven't flown one), like most homebuilts if you got to be in an accident you're much safer in a certified airplane.

Except for this case where the 172 was destroyed and the searey made it to the ground safely.

Regardless of age, type of pilot or aircraft, this was a tragedy and I hope it doesn't keep the program down.

[ahramin]

I'm an EAA member and I think there should be a little more care that goes on around these events.

Totally in line with my thoughts on taking kids for rides but when you look at the stats (20+ years, 1.8 million kids, 2 kids dead) it appears safer than normal for GA. Does EAA have any safety policies in place for the young eagles program? Experience, currency, hours on the homebuilt aircraft? Not that it would have made a difference in this case but I'm always worried we're going to have a classic case of "should never have happened" in this program.

[ahramin]

While the SeaRey looks like a reasonable plane (seen one, haven't flown one), like most homebuilts if you got to be in an accident you're much safer in a certified airplane.

Except for this case where the 172 was destroyed and the searey made it to the ground safely.

Shiny is talking about crashworthiness. Survivability in a crash is much better in certified aircraft.

[Shiny Side Up]

While the SeaRey looks like a reasonable plane (seen one, haven't flown one), like most homebuilts if you got to be in an accident you're much safer in a certified airplane.

Except for this case where the 172 was destroyed and the searey made it to the ground safely.

Regardless of age, type of pilot or aircraft, this was a tragedy and I hope it doesn't keep the program down.

I hope it doesn't keep it down either. Young Eagles was and still is my prime reason for being an EAA member. I'll admit I originally assumed it was the Cessna that survived the crash, I'd still stand by my original assessment.

I learn something new all the time here.

I guess I had better quit taking passengers in case I crash.

At what age should you quit carrying passengers due to being to old?

Don't be silly. My point would be that when it comes to these sorts of events, the public should be a bit more informed. Not all the pilots that fly at them are equal after all, and certainly not all the airplanes. Not that one can't be safe in a home built, but not all home builts are equal either. It would be nice to see a method of checking pilots too for these, since in my experience a lot of home builders don't fly very regularly.

That's just my opinion.

[boeingboy]

Survivability in a crash is much better in certified aircraft

Yea - keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.

I dont know what the comments here are really about.........doesn't matter what kind of planes were involved, the had a mid air collision. Could and has happened with any type.

[golden hawk]

Not sure how many of these attributed age of the pilot as a factor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-air_collision

[Shiny Side Up]

Survivability in a crash is much better in certified aircraft

Yea - keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.

That comes from the worst kind of experience. If you're one of those people who tells themselves that your home built is just as sturdy as a Cessna or Piper you keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.

I dont know what the comments here are really about.........doesn't matter what kind of planes were involved, the had a mid air collision. Could and has happened with any type.

Sure it could have. The pilots are really at issue here. It would probably be somewhat revealing to see currency and total times.

[AirFrame]

While the SeaRey looks like a reasonable plane (seen one, haven't flown one), like most homebuilts if you got to be in an accident you're much safer in a certified airplane.

Might want to read the article again. The amateur-built SeaRey survived the midair and completed a forced approach off-airport safely, the certified Cessna 172 crashed killing the occupants. (edit - someone already made that point, oops)

So much is dependent on the actual circumstances that it's not really possible to say that a two-place amateur-built airplane is any better or worse off than a two-place certified aircraft. To be honest, I would have expected the larger, heavier, 172 to fare better in this situation, but if it were a 150 I wouldn't bet on either one over the other.

[boeingboy]

That comes from the worst kind of experience. If you're one of those people who tells themselves that your home built is just as sturdy as a Cessna or Piper you keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.

What a completely asinine statement. Clearly made from the paranoid, uneducated group of aviation.

[Shiny Side Up]

I'd place a wager that I have more time in home builts than you do. But I'm sure I don't know what I'm talking about.

[GyvAir]

Using the results of any airborne collision, or even statistics from many airborne collisions as an indicator of crash survivability of different aircraft types is relying on rather flawed logic, in my opinion. Aircraft damage resulting from airborne collisions is going to be different in every case, along with the resulting post collision controllability, or lack thereof, of each aircraft. No aircraft are designed for crash survivability in a vertical or near vertical descent situation, which is the common and expected outcome of such collisions when flight controls or flight surfaces are compromised.

I do hope that something is learned and something improved as a result of this accident and that the ultimate result isn’t yet another reduction in accessibility to aircraft and aviation for aspiring young flyers.

My condolences to those affected.

[Shiny Side Up]

Using the results of any airborne collision, or even statistics from many airborne collisions as an indicator of crash survivability of different aircraft types is relying on rather flawed logic, in my opinion. Aircraft damage resulting from airborne collisions is going to be different in every case, along with the resulting post collision controllability, or lack thereof, of each aircraft. No aircraft are designed for crash survivability in a vertical or near vertical descent situation, which is the common and expected outcome of such collisions when flight controls or flight surfaces are compromised.

Of course not, many type of crashes are going to be unsurviveable regardless of type. That said, I still stand by that you're more likely to get hurt in a homebuilt than a certified airplane. Especially the more common types of accidents that tend to happen in this sort of setting. Regardless, it isn't that relevant to the topic at hand, only tangentally when it comes to the way these sorts of events are conducted. While this type of accident is rare, and the EAA has a good record, there is room for improvement.

As above hopefully this won't put a limiting factor on future endeavors to get young people flying.