10 year agreement with pilots

[ram]

Don't be blinded by the signing bonus. There are some details coming to light that seem to indicate this may not be quite as good a deal as some think. Lots of questions still left to be answered.....

Really? There are no concessions here...do the improvements meet everybody's expectations? No...will they ever? No.

This is the best contract we've seen in years...no contract will ever satisfy every group but all in all this is a huge leap forward!

[ski_bum]

This is good news for us folks swimming in the pool for the last couple years. Sounds like hiring will spool up soon enough and the nice welcome gift of 10k won't hurt. It sure is nice to see a positive contract for a change, although it not all out in the air yet, it sure looks promising.

[cpt.sam]

Could this be upper management realizing their pockets are getting pretty full, and the working staff are tired of it?
Makes sense, if the folks working hard are bringing in record profit, they deserve a slice of the pie!

[bythenumbers]

AC is being proactive and looking into the future realizing there is a pilot shortage coming and looking to lock in labour costs at good conditions now. However, in 5+ years from demand may outweigh the supply.

[dukepoint]

Labour stability is expensive.

Try going to the bank and securing a 10 year mortgage.....it will cost you dearly.

Labour stability is paramount to the plan moving forward.

The $10,000 "signing bonus" is not properly named, and should never have called such. It is part of an old code share grievance that was settled as part of this agreement. The real value of the code share grievance will never be known. My bet is this "signing bonus" was very nearly cost neutral.

Given the volitility of the industry, personally, I'm not convinced that 2016 will secure anything better..........in fact I'm convinced it will not, so barring any "ugliness" that may yet rise when the details are released, I'm leaning towards a definite "yes".

DP.

[Sea2Sky]

I would suggest that people on this forum who are privy to contract details to keep this information to yourself! Nothing has been ratified, and it's nobody's business outside of ACPA until the vote. Why do people continue up to spread our business on this forum the moment it becomes available??

[Jimmy_Hoffa]

This is good news for us folks swimming in the pool for the last couple years. Sounds like hiring will spool up soon enough and the nice welcome gift of 10k won't hurt. It sure is nice to see a positive contract for a change, although it not all out in the air yet, it sure looks promising.

Doubt the hiring will spoil up until around this time next year. People are still not retiring. Also the signing bonus is just that. It's for pilots on property who ratify the agreement, not everyone that gets hired for the next 10 years

[MB22]

I would suggest that people on this forum who are privy to contract details to keep this information to yourself! Nothing has been ratified, and it's nobody's business outside of ACPA until the vote. Why do people continue up to spread our business on this forum the moment it becomes available??

+1
not sure why someone found it necessary to post it. very distasteful.

[SilvrSurfr]

I would suggest that people on this forum who are privy to contract details to keep this information to yourself! Nothing has been ratified, and it's nobody's business outside of ACPA until the vote. Why do people continue up to spread our business on this forum the moment it becomes available??

+1
not sure why someone found it necessary to post it. very distasteful.

Agreed, very disappointing. Rudder (DK???) Why would you do that? Is it just a desire to be first or are you trying to stir something up?

Surfr

[swervin]

Rudder is not an AC pilot.

[SilvrSurfr]

Interesting,

How would he find himself in possession of such information, and who would provide it to him. Either way disappointing, have fun guys.

Surfr

[rudder]

Why post it?

2 reasons.

First - this is the digital age. Once ACPA pressed send on any document they know that it is in the public domain.

Second - despite the fact that this is an ACPA internal vote, others are affected by the content and the outcome. If anyone believes that a TA is a state secret then they have an inflated sense of importance.

Conduct the road show. Conduct the vote. And then move on.

The only people who's opinion matters are the eligible voters.

[BingBong]

You guys really think these cards would be kept a secret. This is heads up poker boys. If the need for secrecy was so important then like our Union there would be NDAs slapped all over the place and be kept in the dark. At least you guys hear something. You should be proud of the letters that your MEC has written to you. Very professional and giving lots of info without divulging details. And again. If the contents of this TA were so secretive...NDA.

Did this not happen to TA 1??

[SilvrSurfr]

Fair enough,

That said, the contents of this TA are currently an internal discussion for ACPA members. There is no internal value in a voting member with access to our private forum posting the details in an external fashion such as this. Either way it's not of huge significance just puzzling from a motives point of view. Like I said, have fun guys. Enjoy the show.

Surfr

[Bede]

+1 Rudder

[MB22]

Rudder, I take it when your union comes to a tentative deal you'll come running on here and post it as well.
You know exactly why you posted this information so quickly. Don't scapegoat your motives.

[Sea2Sky]

Why post it?

2 reasons.

First - this is the digital age. Once ACPA pressed send on any document they know that it is in the public domain.

Second - despite the fact that this is an ACPA internal vote, others are affected by the content and the outcome. If anyone believes that a TA is a state secret then they have an inflated sense of importance

Absolute nonsense. They didn't hit "send" to the Westjet gossip mill. They hit send to OUR email accounts. Whoever released these details to you are at fault, and are equally infantile for releasing this. But if you want to use the "digital age" to justify your need to wade into someone else's business, fill your boots. TMZ does the same thing, so you're in good company. It's unprofessional, pure and simple. Nobody expects that things like this won't happen. It's just hoped that when people are at the moment of making a choice of whether to mind their own business and move on, they'll take the high road. You didn't.

As for being affected by the outcome? Well, wait for the outcome. The only sense of importance is wanting to be the first to be the town crier.

[Fanblade]

Original post deleted.

I doubt that the TA details nor the debate can be bottled up. But that is up to the ACPA pilots.

Good luck.

FWIW I didn't see the problem with your post.

We seem to forget that everything we do impacts the careers, livelihood and lifestyle of over 1500 non ACPA pilots. Of course they are interested. In some cases anxious.

The same isn't true in reverse. A new Jazz contract doesn't impact me. It's whatever. Not trying to be disrespectful just saying there is a palatable difference.

Why is it a problem to share factual information with everyone it impacts? Keeping information in the dark that impacts others is more damaging than its worth.

In fact I hope this was shared with Jazz MEC, not before us, but simultaneously. They are going to get it anyway. It's just IMO the respectful thing to do.

JMO of course

[Krimson]

No harm can be done from posting this public. The AC deal affects a lot of pilots who do not work there, in the pool, waiting, etc.

Bargaining can always help with some outside input.

[Donald]

After taking a quick glance at the original post, it looks like congratulations are in order for ACPA pilots, and for Canadian pilots in general.

The fact they didn't stomp on the junior members to reward the senior members is something pilots from other large Canadian airlines could learn from.