IFR clearances and FSS

[grimey]

If the airport is located within controlled airspace it's different. An aircraft that filed an IFR flight plan and proceeding for departure in accordance with that flight plan is considered by ATS as an IFR aircraft. It will require an IFR clearance to depart. In order to depart VFR in VMC it must receive an VFR departure approval from ATC. Other options are to cancel the IFR flight plan and change it to a VFR, or proceed under a VFR company note.

Which is what they're doing, or limiting themselves to 25nm of the airport until they can get an IFR clearance and open their flight plan. They're then picking up a clearance for their IFR plan once airborne, though as they departed without approval, the ACC isn't required to get it for them at any specific time. RAC 6.2.2

6.2.2 VFR Release of an IFR Aircraft
When a delay is experienced in receiving an IFR departure
clearance, a pilot may request approval to depart and maintain
VFR until an IFR clearance can be received. The conditions in
RAC 6.2.1 also apply in this situation. If the request for a VFR
departure is approved, the pilot will be given a time, altitude
or location at which to contact ATC for an IFR clearance.
Depending upon the reasons for the IFR departure clearance
delay, a VFR departure of an IFR flight may not be approved
by the IFR unit. In situations such as these, it may be desirable
for the pilot to wait for the IFR departure clearance.

That last bit wouldn't be there if it wasn't ok NOT to wait for the clearance. It's just that without approval, the pilot may be VFR the whole way.

[eh3fifty]

If you depart VFR in VMC without a VFR departure approval, that's fine. But the ACC may not be able to get you a clearance for quite a while, so I hope you're happy at 12,500, or wherever the bases are,

Try 700' AGL or 2200' AGL. I haven't heard of a place that gives a VFR release if it's uncontrolled to 12,500' or FL180.

Zatopec..

ATS will file a report for any IFR aircraft that takes-off without and IFR clearance of a VFR departure approval.

Filing a report is not an indication that an aircraft violated a rule. If there was a rule that was broken then TC can use the CADOR as a reference but a CADOR is not automatically an indication that a rule was broken.

In order to depart VFR in VMC it must receive an VFR departure approval from ATC. Other options are to cancel the IFR flight plan and change it to a VFR, or proceed under a VFR company note.

No such thing as a "VFR company note" even though it still abounds in use by pilots and ATC.

I've got MANOPS with the ATCD 2014-1 amendment and nowhere does it mention what a "company note" is. The latest TC AIM also does not have "company note" anywhere in it.

There is no requirement anymore for ATC to confirm that an aircraft is traveling on a VFR itinerary before closing their IFR flight plan (see the 404.1 Note below). As long as you are in, a) uncontrolled airspace in VMC or IMC, or b) in controlled airspace in VMC (Class E), you may close your IFR flight plan with ATC.

There are two options a pilot has: 1) to cancel IFR - changing to a VFR flight and keeping the flight plan; or 2) to close the flight plan.

To eliminate confusion I recommend using the word "cancel" with "IFR" and the word "close" with "flight plan". You cancel a clearance and you close a flight plan.

So, when you as the pilot call ATC, all you need to say is either: 1) "...cancel IFR, keep alerting."; or 2) "...close the flight plan."

The 'keep alerting' part is added because ATC will ask if you want to close the flight plan once you tell them to cancel IFR. This eliminates unnecessary chatter.

There is no need to say: "...cancel IFR and proceed VFR company note." What you are actually doing is just closing the flight plan.

This does not change the requirement to have an itinerary with someone (usually your company) before you close your flight plan with ATC.

Old habits die hard but that's one thing I'd really like to see die!

Here is the excerpt from the current issue of MANOPS: http://i.imgur.com/d2cpDF8.png

[ahramin]

If you depart VFR in VMC without a VFR departure approval, that's fine. But the ACC may not be able to get you a clearance for quite a while, so I hope you're happy at 12,500, or wherever the bases are,

Try 700' AGL or 2200' AGL. I haven't heard of a place that gives a VFR release if it's uncontrolled to 12,500' or FL180.

You don't need a clearance to be VFR in Class E.

[photofly]

Or class D.

There is no requirement anymore for ATC to confirm that an aircraft is traveling on a VFR itinerary before closing their IFR flight plan (see the 404.1 Note below). As long as you are in, a) uncontrolled airspace in VMC or IMC, or b) in controlled airspace in VMC (Class E), you may close your IFR flight plan with ATC.

Can you provide a bit more detail about closing your IFR flight plan in uncontrolled airspace while in IMC.

[eh3fifty]

If you depart VFR in VMC without a VFR departure approval, that's fine. But the ACC may not be able to get you a clearance for quite a while, so I hope you're happy at 12,500, or wherever the bases are,

Try 700' AGL or 2200' AGL. I haven't heard of a place that gives a VFR release if it's uncontrolled to 12,500' or FL180.

You don't need a clearance to be VFR in Class E.

Yup. Sorry I wasn't clear. I meant that Class E starts then and if it's low IMC conditions you'll be stuck down low because you can't enter controlled airspace without a clearance in IMC.

Departing an airport with Class G up to just below FL180, you can depart and be IMC all the way up to just below the FLs.

I see he was meaning if it was VMC you'd be stuck at 12,500' for Class B.

[eh3fifty]

Or class D.

There is no requirement anymore for ATC to confirm that an aircraft is traveling on a VFR itinerary before closing their IFR flight plan (see the 404.1 Note below). As long as you are in, a) uncontrolled airspace in VMC or IMC, or b) in controlled airspace in VMC (Class E), you may close your IFR flight plan with ATC.

Can you provide a bit more detail about closing your IFR flight plan in uncontrolled airspace while in IMC.

Is there anything specific you'd like to know?

If you're in uncontrolled airspace you only require an IFR itinerary for IMC conditions. The Operational Flight Plan that I submit before departing has the information required to be considered an itinerary - either IFR or VFR.

Let's say I leave controlled high level airspace and enter Class G below FL180. Below FL180 I don't require an IFR clearance and I don't require a flight plan with ATC. I could keep it with ATC and then once I land, call and close the flight plan. Or I could close the flight plan through FL180 as I have an itinerary with the company. I could remain IFR or VFR as I so choose.

EDIT: I will leave the flight plan open, for example, if my alternate routing will take me into controlled airspace and there is a chance I'll be needing to go to my alternate. That way, ATC has a strip on me already which makes things easier for both of us when I call up asking for a clearance.

[QTFSSer]

They can be dick's about that. Just keep repeating the clearance back without airport till they either let it go or they loose their minds. It's fun and funny. If.your in a hurry after 5 minutes tell them you'll just pick it up airborne.

Allow me to preface my response to this by saying from my personal experience, most ATS personnel take a certain amount of pride in their "radio ear", and in voice recognition when it comes to pilot communication.

With that in mind, the fact that ANY pilot would want to start a "pissing contest" with a flight service specialist (who can infract a pilot via an aviation occurrence report over the slightest CARS violation is beyond comprehension.

In summary, Mr. Left of Track, I strongly urge you to "bone up" on CARS, concentrating mainly on communications, and mandatory reporting points!

PS: "If your in a hurry" should probably read "If you're in a hurry"

Just sayin'

[leftoftrack]

They can be dick's about that. Just keep repeating the clearance back without airport till they either let it go or they loose their minds. It's fun and funny. If.your in a hurry after 5 minutes tell them you'll just pick it up airborne.

Allow me to preface my response to this by saying from my personal experience, most ATS personnel take a certain amount of pride in their "radio ear", and in voice recognition when it comes to pilot communication.

With that in mind, the fact that ANY pilot would want to start a "pissing contest" with a flight service specialist (who can infract a pilot via an aviation occurrence report over the slightest CARS violation is beyond comprehension.

In summary, Mr. Left of Track, I strongly urge you to "bone up" on CARS, concentrating mainly on communications, and mandatory reporting points!

PS: "If your in a hurry" should probably read "If you're in a hurry"

Just sayin'

I got friends who are inspectors, you think TC enforcement is going to chase me over a non violation you probibly don't realize what kind of staffing issues they're having. Good luck "infracting"

[HeadingAltitudeSpeed]

I got friends who are inspectors, you think TC enforcement is going to chase me over a non violation you probibly don't realize what kind of staffing issues they're having. Good luck "infracting"

Obviously not very good ones if they keep letting you get away with the shit you describe. But then again it's probably all Troll breath.

[QTFSSer]

They can be dick's about that. Just keep repeating the clearance back without airport till they either let it go or they loose their minds. It's fun and funny. If.your in a hurry after 5 minutes tell them you'll just pick it up airborne.

Allow me to preface my response to this by saying from my personal experience, most ATS personnel take a certain amount of pride in their "radio ear", and in voice recognition when it comes to pilot communication.

With that in mind, the fact that ANY pilot would want to start a "pissing contest" with a flight service specialist (who can infract a pilot via an aviation occurrence report over the slightest CARS violation is beyond comprehension.

In summary, Mr. Left of Track, I strongly urge you to "bone up" on CARS, concentrating mainly on communications, and mandatory reporting points!

PS: "If your in a hurry" should probably read "If you're in a hurry"

Just sayin'

I got friends who are inspectors, you think TC enforcement is going to chase me over a non violation you probibly don't realize what kind of staffing issues they're having. Good luck "infracting"

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that you have friends in low places. I sincerely hope that your flying skills are vastly superior to your spelling/grammar skills.