Getting an IFR clearance

[oldtimer]

Previous posts and rants about cancelling IFR so another IFR can depart has me thinking and that is always dangerous. When I was still actively flying, there were many times when an IFR departure was delayed until a flight inbound to an airport either landed or cancelled the IFR.
Now I am not talking about marginal weather or such but in screaming VFR, why do Canadian air carriers and others not depart VFR and pick up their clearance in the air as done frequently in the USA. I know it is not an accepted procedure in places like CYYC, CYVR etc; but I am thinking places like Kamloops, Peace River, Red Lake and such.
Is there a reason it is not done in Canada or is it just traditional. I know it can create problems and a high risk in marginal weather but under the right conditions, it could save time and keep flights on sched.
Just a thought.

[Liquid Charlie]

Did all the time -- remembering that a vfr release is required from atc in controlled airspace

[Helmet Fire]

I'd say more airplanes are getting their clearances in the air after the VFR release than not in Red Lake. Its very rare that anyone waits to go when the weather is nice.

[eh3fifty]

I fly in northern Manitoba and in Ontario and I depart VFR all the time and then pick up the IFR clearance. If I'm departing from an airport in or around controlled airspace I'll either get the IFR clearance on the ground or wait for the VFR release if there is an FSS. If no FSS then I'll depart VFR into controlled airspace, squawking 1200, until I pick up the IFR clearance.

Did all the time -- remembering that a vfr release is required from atc in controlled airspace

No, it's not required. It is recommended.

You may legally depart VFR in Class E airspace in VMC without any sort of clearance from ATC.

[Liquid Charlie]

You may legally depart VFR in Class E airspace in VMC without any sort of clearance from ATC.

-- maybe so but you do not technically have your flight plan activated -- no communications on the ground you are departing without your flight plan being opened and of course you get your clearance in the air -- one little issue -- you have no way of knowing you are in the system unless you either receive a clearance over the phone or you are lucky enough to have FSS and receive the VFR release -- I know 99% of the time it works to launch but if you are fuel critical and flying something you need to get up to high level airspace stumbling along VFR to sort out your issues sometimes is not worth the chance. What is legal is not necessary wise ----

[cpt.sam]

Departing VFR is just that. Follow the VFR rules and all is good.
Departing VFR and expecting to get an IFR clearance in the air is risky. The controller didn't release you for a reason! He may put you in the penalty box and make you stay down low getting thumped around in the wx for 10 minutes before giving you an IFR clearance to climb!
BUT, getting a VFR release on an IFR flight plan is very common. Out of YWK and YDF it is the norm. Due to the lack of radar they need you be responsible for your separation!
I think it could get hectic at YVR / YYC, or any busy airspace really!

[Panama Jack]

Maybe the problem here is not the pilots, but Nav Canada.

When little airports become busy airports, there is a justification to put a tower there. When the skies darken with aircraft, specifically IFR, then there is a justification for radar and terminal service and airspace modifications. Just because it is "up North" doesn't mean that it must maintain Third World Service perpetually. These types of services are not just meant for places where Airbuses and Boeings fly into.

[timel]

Sometimes it would just take a radar that gets you below 10000'.
Visual departure if you can in E airspace, cancelling as well, and TCAS for some G areas, when you have 6 ifr inbound into some place, it can get really weird.

A bit out of it but I don't understand why TC hasn't made TCAS mandatory for all ifr operators.

[thecaptain]

Sometimes it's simply SOP with 705 operations. Not saying that one CANT go VFR but I'd personally rather wait, within reason to have my clearance Clarence before bombing off into VFR land trying to maneuver safely amongst ifr aircraft all while dealing with a bumpy ride and grumpy passengers. Wait it out, get the clearance. POC and put the "boo!" Behind ya.

[eh3fifty]

-- maybe so but you do not technically have your flight plan activated

An IFR flight plan is activated automatically at your departure time indicated on the flight plan. There is no need to activate the flight plan.

you have no way of knowing you are in the system unless you either receive a clearance over the phone or you are lucky enough to have FSS and receive the VFR release

What puts you in the system is a flight plan. If you have a filed flight plan you are "in the system". ATC knows about you and they'll be expecting you. If they don't hear from you approximately 30 minutes after your proposed departure time they will start looking. Some areas will wait about an hour.

I know 99% of the time it works to launch but if you are fuel critical and flying something you need to get up to high level airspace stumbling along VFR to sort out your issues sometimes is not worth the chance. What is legal is not necessary wise

Completely agree. I always recommend waiting for a VFR release where one is normally issued. Departing when your VFR release has been denied is very unwise!

If you're departing an airport without any ATS then you won't be getting a VFR release. If you're going directly into Class E airspace you will be restricted to 12,500' as Class B starts above 12,500'. If you're going into Class G, without any Class B, you're good up to 17,000'. In the latter case, I will usually depart and get the clearance airborne. Most times I won't have to level prior to 17,000' before getting the clearance into Class A. If departing where Class B airspace is, it might be a good idea to get a clearance on the ground but I've also departed in those cases and gotten clearance virtually all the time without hassle. In all cases, the safest bet is to get the clearance on the ground or get the VFR release.