Logging Night Time Towards ATPL

[currysonic]

Hi Folks,

I just wanted clarification or your thoughts as to what is defined as "Night Flight Time" in CAR 421.34 in regards to the TC licensing inspection for the issuance of an ATPL.

(b) 100 hours night flight time as pilot-in-command or as co-pilot of which a minimum of 30 hours shall have been acquired in aeroplanes;

It recently occurred to me that Instrument Flight Time is; (Inst Time=Actual IMC+Hood/Simulated+Simulator). Instead of time flown under IFR plus Hood and SIM (Forum reference below). So then I asked myself about what is Night Time.

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=60008

So then is Night Flight Time in reference to 421.34 any time flown at Night regardless of Flight Rule? My log book would suggest as such http://imgur.com/k8obYKX. I always assumed it was defined as Night VFR only? I mean IF it was Night Time flown under any Flight Rule, why are we as low timers trying so hard to get Night PIC? Sure SIC time accrues by half but is it that hard to get (assuming you at least have 25 Night PIC when you get a 2 crew aircraft spot) 150 Night SIC?

Thanks in advance, I look forward to your thoughts!

[Oxi]

It's not so much night PIC but night PIC XC.

You can log whatever you please in your logbook just make sure when it comes to applying for a license you have all the required time, exams and signatures.

[Diadem]

Night is night. End of civil twilight to beginning of civil twilight. If TC doesn't specify between night VFR and IFR, then it's all night.

[DanWEC]

Doesn't have to be night VFR for that requirement, can be IFR.
BUT-
TC won't let you double dip when it comes to hood instrument, and night. Eg for the night rating, you can't log night and hood simultaneously on one flight to meet each of the respective requirements.

[Oxi]

Doesn't have to be night VFR for that requirement, can be IFR.
BUT-
TC won't let you double dip when it comes to hood instrument, and night. Eg for the night rating, you can't log night and hood simultaneously on one flight to meet each of the respective requirements.

TC doesn't let you double dip for the issuance of the night rating, if your flight was 1.0 at night and 0.8 hood, it would just be 0.2 night flying. You can log however you want in the logbook.

[currysonic]

Doesn't have to be night VFR for that requirement, can be IFR.
BUT-
TC won't let you double dip when it comes to hood instrument, and night. Eg for the night rating, you can't log night and hood simultaneously on one flight to meet each of the respective requirements.

TC doesn't let you double dip for the issuance of the night rating, if your flight was 1.0 at night and 0.8 hood, it would just be 0.2 night flying. You can log however you want in the logbook.

Thanks for the feedback! I probably won't be in IMC at night for a looong time, but what about actualy IMC at night? Would it be 1.0 Night 0.8 IMC would be 0.2 Night flying as well? Just for curiousity sakes

[DanWEC]

Doesn't have to be night VFR for that requirement, can be IFR.
BUT-
TC won't let you double dip when it comes to hood instrument, and night. Eg for the night rating, you can't log night and hood simultaneously on one flight to meet each of the respective requirements.

TC doesn't let you double dip for the issuance of the night rating, if your flight was 1.0 at night and 0.8 hood, it would just be 0.2 night flying. You can log however you want in the logbook.

Thanks for the feedback! I probably won't be in IMC at night for a looong time, but what about actualy IMC at night? Would it be 1.0 Night 0.8 IMC would be 0.2 Night flying as well? Just for curiousity sakes

No, the reason I mentioned hood time is it's a bit different than actual. When you're under the hood does it matter if it's day, night, or flying through bacon? (mm, bacon.) Nope.
Actual however should be logged in parallel with the condition. so 1.0 flying time at night, in actual IMC, should be 1.0 night, 1.0 instrument.

[I_Heart_Seaplanes]

I am going to be in the same situation soon, and renting a plane to get the required night and instrument time. The way it was explained to me by two instructors is:
You cannot double dip night and instrument while getting a night or instrument rating.
But if you are night and instrument rated and file an IFR flight plan on a night flight, you can log both night and instrument time.

[Oxi]

Just because it's filed as IFR flight plan doesn't mean it's actual IFR.

[Cat Driver]

Just because it's filed as IFR flight plan doesn't mean it's actual IFR.

why would you file an IFR flight plan then fly the trip using VFR rules?

[B-rad]

im guessing he means not actual IFR as in IMC conditions but still IFR procedures

[Oxi]

Plenty of students and people will log actual instrument time when its a sky clear day, even if the take off and approach is imc it may only be a 0.4 of actual and the flight above the clouds 2.0.

[Cat Driver]

Plenty of students and people will log actual instrument time when its a sky clear day, even if the take off and approach is imc it may only be a 0.4 of actual and the flight above the clouds 2.0.

I personally find hand flying by reference to instruments only in IMC is far easier than flying VFR looking outside.

So I can see why some pilots prefer filing IFR and having protected airspace to fly in.

[arctic_slim]

I personally log IFR time if I fly under IFR rules. Even if it's VFR conditions, we fly IFR following IFR rules and therefore I log it as IFR time. Is that wrong? I also keep a separate column for actual IMC, and I only log actual IMC time in there, just in case anyone ever needs a number from me.