TC will not issue me an ATPL-H, because of aircraft type.

[Cat Driver]

Or you can be like some others here who work outside the regulations, get caught and spend a couple of decades complaining.

Fortunately I have never been one of that group.

Or to put it more clearly I have never " been caught working outside the regulations. "

[CID]

That's good to hear Cat Driver.

[CropDuster]

Everyone bitching, just go get it done right, like everyone else. If you feel like challenging TC go ahead, nothing wrong with that either.

[trampbike]

So flying the Cormorant in a national SAR role isn't "doing it right"?

[Outlaw58]

People who wear our uniform, and step up to defend us wherever, and whenever get a bit of a "let" from me. I sure would not have the nerve to disallow the application as described, from a person whose fellow members are getting attacked in our own country!

There are people in our society who care for everyone else, and take a personal risk doing it. Military, police, fire, ambulance, and others. They should get the benefit of any grey zone our society has to offer. We don't weasel word these people, we step up in some small way for them.....

Amen brother!

JP

[Cat Driver]

So flying the Cormorant in a national SAR role isn't "doing it right"?

Apparently that is not good enough for T.C.

So the military should inform T.C. they will no longer search for civilian aircraft because they do not meet the military type certificate.

[CID]

"Doing it right" is to follow the established procedures. If there is room for improvement, it's not up to the guy issuing the license to question it or to make an exception. He doesn't have the authority.

This thread has a certain vibe. One that has many who don't have a problem breaking the rules and take issue with the authorities who are merely following them.

[trampbike]

This thread has a certain vibe. One that has many who don't have a problem breaking the rules and take issue with the authorities who are merely following them.

It's not about breaking the rules, it's about finding some rules absurd.

[Cat Driver]

Some people are unable to grasp that simple concept trampbike.

They find it easier to just follow the rules regardless of how stupid the rules are.

To question authority for some people is just beyond their ability.

[CID]

Well...it's kept me out of jail.

[Cat Driver]

People should be put in jail for questioning authority?

[CID]

Umm...no. Not following the rules is a different story than questioning aurhority. How would you suggest the TC respondent should have handled it? Based of course on his job description and responsibilities.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

TC will do very questionable things when certain big interests are at stake:

FLVCs are issued for purposes not allowed by the regulations

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=99311

and foreign licensed pilots are issued TC ATPLs after doing their skills test in simulator.

[CID]

Gilles, yes I read that earlier post of yours but chose not to comment at the time. The argument you presented is so convoluted that the intent is lost. The apparent intent rather than the "real" intent which I perceive to be that you are upset that foreign pilots are taking Canadian jobs. An issue that I feel should be controlled but not banned. We don't want to be isolationists who close ourselves to opportunities in other countries.

Having said that, many of your arguments fail. For example, you state vehemently and repeatedly that an FLVC is a "document" and not a "license". However, it's a document that officially validates and recognizes a person's license. Why issue another license when a pilot already has one?

Just like many other procedures made to reciprocate acceptance of foreign airworthiness authority processes, the aim is to identify the deficiencies, address them and ultimately, accept the license once issues are resolved. When an FAA STC is issued on an aircraft that is a US state of design, an acceptance letter is issued. They don't issue another STC if not required. When a US registered aircraft doesn't have a normal C of A and a special flight authority is required, the FAA issues it and Transport Canada "validates" it. They don't issue another one.

So why, within a process where the intent is to validate a foreign pilot's license to operate in Canada would they need to issue another license?

It's also somewhat curious that you try to use the CARs and all sorts of guidance and policy to impose restrictions to persons pursuing an FLVC implying that TCCA is somehow "trampling" the rules and then jump on the bandwagon and condemn TC when they follow the rules.

[7ECA]

Looks like AW109SP is kosher for the boys and girls at TC. Didn't know we even had those in the RCAF, but apparently we do.

http://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/2/C ... d2014P1799

[Matrix55]

Looks like AW109SP is kosher for the boys and girls at TC. Didn't know we even had those in the RCAF, but apparently we do.

http://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/2/C ... d2014P1799

We don't. This is a simple mistake made by the person who filed the report. The entry under model should have been CH-149 Cormorant.

Here's another example of an error:

http://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/2/c ... d2014Q1063

The report is actually for a Bell 412 and the person who filed the report entered Agusta AB-412... Doing a quick search, this has happened more than once.

[mobot0273]

OK, did the written exams and meet all the ATPL-H skill requirements, but TC will not issue the license!
Anyone ever run into this before or have any input on the way ahead in this situation, so I can get the license issued.

Thanks,


Here are the emails form TC.



"Further to your ATPLH application received August 21, 2014 I have reviewed your application and logbooks and find you meet all the requirements to hold the Airline Transport Pilot License Helicopter License. There is, however, an issue with the helicopter type CH-149 in which you completed your skill test requirement under CARs 421.35(5). It is unfortunately, not a Transport Canada approved aircraft type and as such we cannot issue the license without a designated helicopter type.

I have included the e-mail thread below from our Standards division outlining the options available to you and I would encourage you to try to get a secondary skill test, in accordance with CARs 421.35(5) which states: “Within the 12 months preceding the date of application for the licence, an applicant shall demonstrate in flight and on the ground familiarity with and the ability to perform, as pilot-in-command of a helicopter required to be operated with a co-pilot, both normal and emergency procedures and manoeuvres appropriate to the privileges of an Airline Transport Pilot Licence – Helicopter. ” on a TC approved two-crew helicopter type: http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... 3-1394.htm

We have to be able to put a helicopter type rating on a Canadian Pilot licence. If the applicant is not current on a helicopter that is in our RDIMS Helicopter type Designator Table then there is nothing that we can do.

Here are some options that the applicant may try:


To obtain his Civilian ATPL-H
1. He may ask his commanding officer if someone will do a Skill test on a different helicopter . For example we have the following civilian helicopters and their equivalent military types:

Civilian Type Military Type
BH12 CH135
BH141 CH146
HV07 CH113

If the DND applicant can meet the skill requirement on one of the above helicopters then provided he has meets all the other ATPL-H requirements an ATPL-H shall be issued.



2. He may ask if he can put 10 hours on the BH06 or other helicopter that the military uses and that is in our Civilian Type Designator table. In this case the applicant could apply for then CPL-H. The applicant would still need to pass the Commercial Pilot Licence (Helicopter) Air Law, Air Traffic Rules and Procedures (HARPC). See CAR 421.31(8)(a)(ii). The advantage here to point 3 below is the applicant does not have to complete a CPL-H Skill Test.

Once he has his CPL-H, when he applies for a civilian job, he will be required to complete an IFR Pilot Proficiency Check in accordance with CAR421.35(5). Transport Canada will accept his completed IFR Pilot Proficiency Check and then could issue an ATPL-H with a Group 4 Instrument Rating. His written ATPL-H and IFR examinations are valid for 24 months.


3. Last but not least the applicant can do the following:
a) Pass the CPL written examination.
b) Use his DND training experience to meet the commercial CPL experience requirements
c) Pass a CPL-H flight test in a small civilian helicopter and obtain a CPL-H

4. Once he has his CPL-H, when he applies for a civilian job, his completed IFR Pilot Proficiency Check in accordance with CAR421.35(5) could be used to issue him an ATPL-H. His written ATPL-H examinations are valid for 24 months.

I know it has been almost 10 years now but TC recently started to deny DND applicants flying the BH41 to apply for the ATPL-H licence. Do you by any chance still have that email from TC stored somewhere? I'd like to have a copy. Thanks!