Your first T4 over $100k was when you had....

[iflyforpie]

Ya I've noticed these people you speak of too. They are often caring for families, putting themselves second to their children, providing a home and stability for loved ones, helping their elders with health issues, and saving for the future so their next generation doesn't have to struggle. While that money isn't buying them happiness, it's buying their loved ones happiness that you don't see, it's paying bills that you don't see, it's fighting struggles that you don't see, and all that you do see is that they are working for reasons you don't know.

Is it buying them happiness though? While not representative of everyone.... I see a lot of that translating into kids who are given toys instead of attention, adult children who stay at home for years and years because home is too comfortable for them, adult children who are given schooling for what they want to do rather than what will translate into a better career, wives who are sick of being alone all of the time, the elderly who are left in a nice home but neglected by their time-poor relatives. Again... it's pretty easy to try and money away problems. I don't want my family to ever think their lives aren't as good because they don't live in a specific neighbourhood, don't live in a 3000 sq ft house, don't ride in a new vehicle, don't go to private school, don't have satellite TV, don't have brand-name clothes, or have to live in an in-law suite vs a fancy retirement palace.

The reasons why I chose the path I did was a selfless one as well.... ....in my ten years, I've never missed a birthday, never missed an anniversary, send my kids off to their first day of school and every day since then, never missed any concerts/recitals/games/or tournaments... and not only attended kids activities but actively participated in them as well... and have had just about every evening to spend at home with my wife.

What's important is that you do what is right for you and your family... and that more money isn't always the answer. Time is a valuable currency.... and there are very few who have both time and money....

[B-rad]

Forget the money doesn't buy happiness mantra. It's complete bullshit to suggest living paycheque to paycheque is acceptable. Pilots should not be a struggling group. 100K may be a nice round number to discuss and may be considered an accomplishment because it's more then enough for many but I do not see a down side for keep a high standard or any shame in expecting to be paid for your skill. There is nothing enlightened about lowering the value of our skills.

[Shiny Side Up]

Of course it's not fun living paycheck to paycheck, but once you get beyond that, how much more do you need to be happy? It's not so much about how well you're renumerated, but then how much time do you have to expend being renumerated in such a fashion. Pie is right, your most precious commodity is time. You only have a short bit on the planet, and you can't take anything with you.

[B-rad]

Pie is right, your most precious commodity is time. You only have a short bit on the planet, and you can't take anything with you.

yes, and I don't know any Pilots who work second jobs. Do you?

[Cat Driver]

If I had my life to live again knowing what I do now about what is most important, I would not have been a pilot because I was away from home so much.

[B-rad]

Of course it's not fun living paycheck to paycheck, but once you get beyond that, how much more do you need to be happy? It's not so much about how well you're renumerated, but then how much time do you have to expend being renumerated in such a fashion. Pie is right, your most precious commodity is time. You only have a short bit on the planet, and you can't take anything with you.

Being paid poorly and being paid well does not equal spending more time earning those wages.

[JeppsOnFire]

I read an article about this situation. Although I obviously cannot vet the sources, according to the author, there is a magical income number that affects happiness. Less than this amount, the financial struggles become oppressive and beyond this number, more money does not appreciably in increase happiness. In expensive Alberta, they claim this number is $80K household income.

Food for thought.

[CpnCrunch]

I used to earn a lot more than 100k, but for the last 15 years I've earned a lot less than 100k. I'm a hell of a lot happier now than when I was earning shedloads of money, due to running my own business rather than being in a stressful job. It would be nice if I could do what I'm doing now and earn a lot of money from it, but to be honest it would only make me a little bit happier.

[Shiny Side Up]

yes, and I don't know any Pilots who work second jobs. Do you?

Yes, quite a few, myself included at various times in my career.

[B-rad]

Yes, quite a few, myself included at various times in my career.

That was a rhetorical question if you didn't notice...
Why would you work a second job if time is so valuable and money not so important?

Maybe I'm not being understood when I mention the need for more money. I am not advocating that money at all costs and we should set life goals to be make as much money as we can. I'm arguing that we should be demanding high wages for the jobs we work as Pilots and not accepting meager wages like 24k a year and being proud of that.

I'm not saying go find a stressful job that you don't like because it earns you 100k a year but maintain the job you do enjoy and demand fair pay for it. Turn down the job that pays shit and don't support businesses that only survive from not paying their employees adequately.

there is a magical income number that affects happiness. Less than this amount, the financial struggles become oppressive and beyond this number, more money does not appreciably in increase happiness.

I've heard this same information before and can't recall the source either but in running with this thought, why not strive to reach this threshold? why accept the wage that comes with financial struggles and justify it with the mantra money doesn't buy happiness?

[Shiny Side Up]

Well I think we're actually on the same page, it's really how much past the survival threshold you are that governs if you can consider how much money is going to bring you happiness.

[T1040]

It took me 11,500 hours, 22 years in industry to crack 100k. 5 years an AME, then 17 flying. AMEs are dramatically underpaid in Canada.

[planett]

I made 99.5K 14 years after starting training, 12 years working as a pilot and had about 8000 hours. Now a steady 125K at 21 years and 19 years respectively, and 9500 hours, 7 type ratings, 3 regions, 6 moves, and never a step down in pay except once 10 years ago briefly. Turned down a few "better" jobs to avoid a horrendous pay cut, I make less now than I would have otherwise, but the accumulated loss of income over many years was a non-starter. Good schedule and working conditions now.

Edit: Oddly enough, I still get subtle messages and comments that I should be thankful to have a job, after two decades!

[JohnnyHotRocks]

If I had my life to live again knowing what I do now about what is most important, I would not have been a pilot because I was away from home so much.

In my situation it is the opposite. At 120hrs per year I am home all the time. Sometimes for a couple months at a time. Couldnt think of another career that would allow that kind of time off.

[JeppsOnFire]

It took me ten years to break that 100K barrier. I am certain I could have hit it sooner but I have only taken jobs that make sense for where I am in life and what fits the big picture. I've watched countless young guys roving the aviation countryside hungry for the next 'better' job that will finally make them happy. The young ambitious version of myself was able to avoid the sucker hole of: bigger=better and/or big money=better. All the old grey-bush's I flew with all sang the same tune of regret - furthering their careers at the cost of all that really matters. I figured that when most, if not all of them were saying the same thing, maybe it's worth listening.
Worked out for me so far.

[AirFrame]

Year one of ATC

Wow. Is that typical? If so, it would be financially attractive to quit my current job and go to NavCan.

Just in case rookieatc missed this... I would genuinely like to know whether 100K a year after starting as ATC is realistic. I have a few acquaintances who are at the point of making career changes and ATC was an option they've considered. That kind of earning potential would make it more attractive.

[1000 HP]

I made my first 6 figure income after 20 years of flying and 7000 plus hours in the bush.
It was at that time that I quit and started working in the oil patch. 2 years in I was over $100,000 year

[sstaurus]

Year one of ATC

Wow. Is that typical? If so, it would be financially attractive to quit my current job and go to NavCan.

Just in case rookieatc missed this... I would genuinely like to know whether 100K a year after starting as ATC is realistic. I have a few acquaintances who are at the point of making career changes and ATC was an option they've considered. That kind of earning potential would make it more attractive.

I've heard it's 100K plus to start if you can get IFR. (As long as you can suck it up for OJT and no pay during initial training). You also have no control over your posting.

[iflyforpie]

Yes, quite a few, myself included at various times in my career.

That was a rhetorical question if you didn't notice...
Why would you work a second job if time is so valuable and money not so important?

I work several 'jobs' other than piloting. One of the reasons is because I have so much time (another year where I didn't break 200 flight hours) and I have to do something with it. Another is because they are all things I like to do. Another is that they are all open-ended jobs that I can do pretty much any time I want for as much as I want. One of them is based out of my home. The cash is nice... but like I said before, it isn't cash that requires huge lifestyle sacrifices to get.

Maybe I'm not being understood when I mention the need for more money. I am not advocating that money at all costs and we should set life goals to be make as much money as we can. I'm arguing that we should be demanding high wages for the jobs we work as Pilots and not accepting meager wages like 24k a year and being proud of that.

100% agreed. Even though I only fly a couple hundred hours a year, I get a much higher wage. But we should also demand fair treatment as employees as far as duty days, unforeseen circumstances, schedules, vacations, advancement, pressure, and disciplinary action.

[AirFrame]

I've heard it's 100K plus to start if you can get IFR. (As long as you can suck it up for OJT and no pay during initial training). You also have no control over your posting.

I was able to confirm this with a friend who works for NavCan. Typical small airport tower controllers start closer to $60K/year, ACC could be $100K. I understand that you have *some* control over your posting... You can bid for a number of places/regions... But at the end of the day if there's nothing available that you want you'll have to accept something you don't.

[NJ]

While salary starts around 60k at smaller towers, there is also ATC Premium, weekend and evening premiums, and overtime. I made 100k in my first full year of ATC (tower) but a lot of that was from taxable income from isolated post housing. Sure beat renting a room in a trailer for $800 a month!

[rookieatc]

Wow. Is that typical? If so, it would be financially attractive to quit my current job and go to NavCan.

Just in case rookieatc missed this... I would genuinely like to know whether 100K a year after starting as ATC is realistic. I have a few acquaintances who are at the point of making career changes and ATC was an option they've considered. That kind of earning potential would make it more attractive.

I've heard it's 100K plus to start if you can get IFR. (As long as you can suck it up for OJT and no pay during initial training). You also have no control over your posting.

I was trying to refrain from commenting again as I already got in trouble once for replying to this thread. But seeing as how it's a conversation I'll comment one last time.

Yes the 100k was for IFR, the starting salary now for a year one IFR ATC is around 91k and change I believe. But add on top of that an operational facility premium which is anywhere from 10-25k, plus shift premiums, plus overtime it can all add up pretty quick. Success rates aren't that great, but it's a gamble I'm glad I made. As far as where you are posted, the centre you train at will be the centre you work at so that's pretty straight forward. Different story for VFR or FSS obviously though. You can view our collective agreement online at the CATCA website although it might be a confusing read.

[Tango5]

I've heard it's 100K plus to start if you can get IFR. (As long as you can suck it up for OJT and no pay during initial training). You also have no control over your posting.

I was able to confirm this with a friend who works for NavCan. Typical small airport tower controllers start closer to $60K/year, ACC could be $100K. I understand that you have *some* control over your posting... You can bid for a number of places/regions... But at the end of the day if there's nothing available that you want you'll have to accept something you don't.

The base pay for an ATC-1 tower is in the $60K range but that's before any location premiums or overtime. My first year pay at an ATC-1 tower came in at over $90K. If you can stomach the thought of being sent somewhere a bit less cosmopolitan to start, it's a good career path.

[rudder]

What does the race to $100K mean? I know pilots that were making $100K in the 1980's. That was a lot of money back then! It took me until the late 1990's to do so. It was still good money. $100K in 2014 is OK money but certainly does not have near the purchasing power of the 1980's or 1990's.

Job security is worth more than a quick run to $100K and no guarantee that it will last.

[gulfan]

5 Hours - Cessna 172 SP. Couldn't afford to continue flying lessons so went into Oil and Gas.