Re-Writing INRAT?

TopperHarley · Post by **TopperHarley** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 6:38 pm

Hey guys,

Can someone please provide a reference as to when the INRAT expires? I wrote mine in Dec 2003, had my Group 1 IFR ride in end of January 2004.

According to my license, my Group 1 is valid until Feb 1 2006. If I do not do a re-ride by that date, will I have to write the INRAT again? I have been told that it is 24 months after the date of your group 1 expiring that a re-write is neccessary (assuming I do not do a renewal).

I'm just a little worried as I will be taking a ramp job pretty soon. For anyone who worked the ramp, how did you deal with IFR renewals? Did you just wait for the PPC ride?

Any comments?

Thanks,
Chris.

tom · Post by **tom** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 6:44 pm

That's true, you have 24 months after you're IFR Licence expire (the flight one)
if you're Group 1 is valid until Feb 1 2006, you have to 1 Feb 2008 to do the renewal but you will not rewrite the INRAT

Pugster · Post by **Pugster** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:15 pm

No need to worry mate - your INRAT exam would be good for 2 years after the expiry of your IFR endorsement. So if 2008 rolls around and you still haven't got a PPC, you should start thinking about renewing.

Then again, if 2008 rolls around and you still haven't got your PPC, you should think about moving on, too.

Good luck in the ramp job - you're fresh out of school, right? If so - good on ya and remember - JUST GIVE'R.

Pugster

TopperHarley · Post by **TopperHarley** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:27 pm

Thanks guys.

Pugster- I graduated last year. Currently, I am doing aerial photography and have 630 hours. I will be leaving beatiful SW Ontario for "beautiful" YTH

Tom- I am a little confused about your post. You gave me the impression that my Group 1 raitng (i.e not the INRAT) expires 2 years after the date on the license. My license says "group 1 rating to february 1/2006." I was under the impression that this means that I need to a my re-ride before that date in order to keep the rating alive. I'm thinking that if I don't do a re-ride by Feb 1/2006, it's like I no longer have an instrument rating. Perhaps I was misinterpreting you, and if I did, I'm sorry.

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:19 am

Correct me if I, heaven forbid, am wrong but I do believe the INRAT is the written exam for the Instrument Rating, which means that once you get the Instrument Rating, it never expires.
What happens is that after your IFR has EXPIRED for more than 24 months, everything has expired and you must do initial training all over again, EXCEPT, you can still take credit for the instrument flight experience already gained so now all the flight time required is to bring you back up to speed in order to pass the practical flight test. The exam will have to be rewritten after 24 months because everthing has expired. Splitting hairs, granted, but that is what TC's world is all about.
Just rent a 172, or whatever, to renew any kind of IFR OR see if rewriting the exam is cheaper. You have until the first day of the 25 month to decide. (Expires @ midnight of the last day of the month). TC can take away a license or rating but they cannot take away experience. This is why the regs were written that way. All spelled out in the CARS.

desksgo · Post by **desksgo** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:58 am

OK, so just so I understand it correctly. Let's say I had my Group 1 but then did a Group 2 or 3 ride or PPC. I need to re-write 2 years after the Group 2 expired? Not the group 1, correct?

Aeros · Post by **Aeros** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:51 am

If your most recent instrument rating has been expired for more than 2 years then you need to rewrite. The only thing that you need to watch for with the PPC rides is that you can do one of the rides and not renew your IFR. If this is the case that ride will have no bearing on your need to rewrite.

Bottom line -- If your last instrument rating has been expired for lees than two years you don't need to rewrite. If your last instrument rating has been expired for more than two years then you do need to rewrite.

desksgo · Post by **desksgo** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:10 pm

Aeros wrote: The only thing that you need to watch for with the PPC rides is that you can do one of the rides and not renew your IFR. If this is the case that ride will have no bearing on your need to rewrite.

Under what circumstances does the PPC count as a ride then?

Thanks guys.

Aeros · Post by **Aeros** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 1:04 pm

desksgo wrote:
Under what circumstances does the PPC count as a ride then?

Thanks guys.

It will count if you also apply to renew your IFR. If memory serves me there is a box at the top of the PPC Flight Test Report that needs to be filled in if you are also renewing your Instrument Rating. If this box is filled in your rating will be renewed. If it isn't filled in the Instrument Rating won't be renewed.

desksgo · Post by **desksgo** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 7:01 pm

Ahhhh I see. Looks like I am going to have to make some calls to see if the box was checked. Thanks for the info. Much appreciated!

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 8:03 pm

Just remember that if you are dealing with an air carrier or a CARS 604 operator that reqiures a PPC, the IFR is part of the PPC.
The only ones that can do an IFR only are Flight Training Organizations.
If the air operator is a VFR only operator, they will not or cannot renew the IFR. The rest can renew the IFR.
All required items of a PPC for an IFR operator also include all the required items for renewal of the IFR.
Some el-cheap-o operators will not pay the extra $30.00 to renew the IFR if it is fairly recent. But you can pay the $30.00 and TC will renew the IFR.
If your company pays the $200.00 per PPC that TC charges, you get one licensing action, so unless you are also getting a type rating, the IFR will be renewed. Signing the PPC card is not a licensing action.
Iif you are paying the $200.00 yourself, make sure the IFR is signed off. There is a box on the flight test report that has to be filled out for the licensing action to take place.
Flight training organizations cannot sign off a PPC. A PPC is a commercial air operator thing only. The only exception is a 604 operator - someone with pressurized turbine equipmet.
Be wise to some of these sleeze bag operators that advertise PPC's They cannot issue a PPC unless you actually are EMPLOYED by them.
A person cannot simply walk in off the street and "buy" a PPC like you do your Instrument Rating.
That is why the flight schools do not advertise PPC's.
Flight Safety and/or Simuflight and other reputable simulator training organizations do not issue PPC's. They offer TYPE RATINGS on aircraft that require a type rating. Because they are held in high esteem by TC, exceptions MAY be made to those with deep pockets who think a B737 type rating will give them a leg up with an air carrier.
The younger set that will try almost anything to land that first job can be had.
I do not know of any unprincipled operators that are practicing this kind of sleeze but in the good ole U.S of Hay, there are a few and the border is not that far away. It is like the deep southern universities that advertize in skin books and such that offer a degree called an LLDBA. Looks like doctor but aint.