Chance of getting hired with a tattoo?

[PilotDAR]

Nearly a hundred of us worked on a plane, we're all very proud of it. The owner invited us to each sign our name to it. we all did, inside a compartment door, which remains closed and not visible other than during maintenance. We all "self expressed", but to the casual observer, inside and out, there is no graffiti on that plane.

I would not like to see graffiti on a plane, it looks unprofessional to me. I would hope that the professional minded pilot cares enough to not allow graffiti to be seen on their plane - nor themself.

[Meatservo]

Hey PilotDAR, I am going to accuse you, respectfully of course, of being on a bit of a high horse. But just a little. My mental image of a professional pilot is stuck firmly in the past as well. I'm one of that minority of pilots who approves of a pilot's uniform, and haircuts, and projecting a neat and dignified appearance. We are closing in on the end of that era, however, and you cannot possibly mean to tell us that when you see a commercial plane go by, and can see the crew through the front window wearing their orange road-vests and baseball caps, you would wrinkle your nose if one of them has a small tattoo?

I think getting persnickety about "professional appearance" in this day and age is like shutting the barn door after the horse done runnoft. The passengers might still care about it, but pilots themselves sure as hell don't. If you give the average pilot the choice of what to wear to work, he'll show up looking like he just emerged from underneath a trailer where he was spraying for rats.

Personally if I was a passenger I would be more comfortable seeing a small personal emblem tattooed on the wrist of a trim young person in a sharp uniform taking his or her seat up front than I would seeing a dishevelled oaf in a pair of coveralls and an orange vest with pristine skin, but that's just me.

Anyone these days who takes too much time making sure they look the part is sure to be labelled a pretentious poser by his peers... a dilettante if you will... More's the pity. That's aviation in Canada for you.

[PilotDAR]

Anyone these days who takes too much time making sure they look the part is sure to be labelled a pretentious poser by his peers... a dilettante if you will... More's the pity.

Yes, I do see your point. I have been known to denigrate newbie pilot for wearing four bars into a 172. So, there's a balance, and I admit to being on the "high horse" side of it.

As a young airline employee back in the day, I recall the horror and trauma when at the last moment the chief pilot had to relieve a captain for a Transatlantic flight - in street clothes! We did not even know that a 707 would fly with street clothes in the cockpit!

But, on my dissenting side of tattoos, I do put my money where my my mouth is; every time I have to parts ways with a beautiful daughter, who has chosen to live a few provinces away, I overtly bribe her to not get a tattoo. She accepts my terms each time. She still looks marvelous in a bikini, and anywhere else is none of my business - just as the inside of the avionics panel of a certain Basler, with all of our signatures on it, is not the public's business either.

I think as the poster who so said "why put a bumper sticker on a Ferrari?", but, I'm not going to become radical about it either way!

[oldyellr]

Seems this topic is just about exhausted. However, what about facial hair? I don't mean actual beards, but stubble. It seems this fashion statement came out about the same time as visible tattoos among ordinary people. I still can't get used to it and it makes me think the person is a mindless sheep, following trends. Would you go for an interview without shaving, or would you emulate your favourite celebrity?

[CpnCrunch]

Seems this topic is just about exhausted. However, what about facial hair? I don't mean actual beards, but stubble. It seems this fashion statement came out about the same time as visible tattoos among ordinary people. I still can't get used to it and it makes me think the person is a mindless sheep, following trends. Would you go for an interview without shaving, or would you emulate your favourite celebrity?

There's a difference between forgetting to shave vs having a very short beard.

[oldyellr]

Well, to me a "beard" is something that's been growing for at least a month. I've had one for maybe 40 years. Anything less is either starting to grow one, trying to look like you're starting. I just don't remember seeing men with deliberate stubble 20 years ago.

So I'll repeat the question. Would one's chances of getting hired with stubble be less than when being clean shaven or having a mature beard?

[GyvAir]

Some people can wear trimmed stubble and have it look fine and professional enough. Few and far between though. I personally wouldn't advise anyone showing up for an interview with stubble, anymore than showing up dressed for clubbing, boarding or hunting, etc.

[CpnCrunch]

IMO a well groomed short beard is more professional than turning up looking like Moses or ZZ Top

[Meatservo]

I guess it all goes to show, it's all about personal taste. I don't mind the trimmed stubble. To me it just looks like a very short beard and isn't inherently untidy if it's groomed, just like many men keep their hair trimmed that short, particularly if they are experiencing male pattern baldness.

[182-SS]

Hey PilotDAR,
I think getting persnickety about "professional appearance" in this day and age is like shutting the barn door after the horse done runnoft. The passengers might still care about it, but pilots themselves sure as hell don't. If you give the average pilot the choice of what to wear to work, he'll show up looking like he just emerged from underneath a trailer where he was spraying for rats.

Anyone these days who takes too much time making sure they look the part is sure to be labelled a pretentious poser by his peers... a dilettante if you will... More's the pity. That's aviation in Canada for you.

These opinions sound like someone who has given up and is completely disillusioned with their profession. So do you think we should allow pilots to show up in sweat pants? How about a a god damn Speedo? Oh you say a speedo isnt appropriate attire for work? You dont want to see some dude's junk and his Curlies? interesting... My point is, where does it stop?

If you're a professional in any industry, you are expected to act and look as one. If one wants to wear sweat pants and be all tatted up then perhaps being a professional Bar patron would be more appropriate?
McDonald's and Starbucks employees are required to look put together in their uniform. These are minimum wage jobs (lets not get into pilot wages, there is already enough thread drift) and they are expected to look professional. You have an entire air planes worth of lives in your hands, you had damn well at least look like you have give a damn if they survive. If you don't care about your professional appearance how can anyone have the confidence that you are a professional.

You've spent an incredible amount of time, money and effort to become a professional pilot, why would anyone want to look like a trailer park boy? Show some pride and class in yourself and your profession.

[Meatservo]

I think you've mis-interpreted the tone of my post just a little. Do I think "we" should "allow" pilots to show up in sweat pants? I don't think "we" get to "allow" anyone to do anything. I see planes taxi by every day with the crews wearing orange road vests in the cockpit. You tell me whether it matters what else they have on anymore.

I'm actually of the opinion that all pilots in Canada with a professional license (commercial or above), A.M.E.s, Flight attendants and ATC workers should be working for a single mercantile-navy type organization that provides aviation services to companies that own aircraft. I think there should be one uniform, with rank insignia and profession-specific badges. I think there should be one pay scale. I think there should be one school. I think there should be a dress code that specifies grooming standards for males and females. I think anyone who tests positive for marijuana should be banned from professional flying. I think training in basic celestial navigation should be mandatory. I'm not crusading or trying to start a discussion. I am just laying out for you what my attitude really is.

So you see, I'm the very last guy who would "allow" someone to show up for work in sweatpants. It's just that I'm not in charge, thank god, and like everyone else I have an idea how I would like the whole "being a professional" thing to play out, but it's not my call. That's why we have people who get cheap educations at crappy flying schools, work for free, break the rules, dress like slobs, smoke dope, maybe even wear their orange vests in the cockpit (!) and actually there are some pretty damn good pilots who probably do or have done all those things. There are probably also guys who look spiffy in their uniforms, went to the finest college, don't drink or smoke, spinelessly acquiesce to every single rule they encounter no matter how petty, don't cheat on their girlfriends and go to church on Sunday, who still manage to be a total menace.

Most of us are somewhere along the continuum. Some of us even have TATOOS! Or a BEARD! I personally try to keep my uniform neat and clean but I'm a bit overweight and sometimes don't like to shave, also even though I wash my shirts, I have not washed my rank "bars" in over ten years because of a superstition I have about it, so you probably wouldn't like how I look in my suit anyway.


Don't be so hung up on your appearance man. Guys who don't look professional get under my skin too. But you gotta tend your own garden, and let others tend theirs.

[182-SS]

I'll open my statement with the same one I opened with last time, These opinions sound like someone who has given up and is completely disillusioned with their profession.

This is not meant to be insulting at all, in fact the opposite, and perhaps I wasn't clear in my prior post as re reading it it does seam like I'm directing the initial Sweats etc.. comments right at you. But in actuality stating that someone is disillusioned actually states that they do care and did care but are fed up with the way things are. I think your response post clearly confirms this.
Interesting some of the points you bring forth. Some of which are for another thread, and in the interest of ceasing additional thread drift, I will wait for, or start new threads.

[Meatservo]

Oh, I see what you mean. I guess you're right.

I'm just entering that phase of life where I'm learning that I'm just a drop in a bucket, and my opinions aren't really all that important. I still like to talk about them, but I understand that you don't just "win" or "lose" at this racket, and I try to do my part to make sure it stays safe for as many people as I can influence. I'm still young enough that I spend some of my time trying to undermine people who just don't seem to get it, I figure I have the right to do that, at least. I know for a fact there are some people who think I'm "unprofessional" because I use a conversational tone on the radio, my paperwork sucks and I sometimes steal sandwiches from the galley. And my Mom says I still look handsome in my flying suit. She doesn't seem to mind the tattoo either.

Don't worry about thread drift. It's organic.

[Diadem]

[GyvAir]

Given that the spacecraft in question was launched 10 or so years ago and was likely on the drawing board and in construction mode for another 10-20 years before that, I'd be willing to make a small wager that the scientist in question was hired before aquiring the majority of his tattoos and probably before all of the publicly visible ones. Regardless, I don't think the debate here is so much as to whether or not someone with visible tattoos is capable of doing the job, but whether they'll be given the chance to do the job in the first place. On a side note, I'd like to see someone try wearing that shirt to a job interview!



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/technolo ... e21570469/

[GyvAir]

Alright.. let me be the first to stand myself corrected...
Upon further reading I see that he was hired on the Rosetta mission only a year ago and to the ESA in 2005.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/r ... 58125.html
http://rosetta.jpl.nasa.gov/matt-taylor

[Meatservo]

Does it say whether or not he had to sign a contract?

[GyvAir]

Given that it's Europe, he likely just had to pay for his own Philae lander type rating to get the interview.

[land3]

Interesting choice of using the Rosetta scientist in this discussion.....didn't someone earlier in the thread talk about making correct decisions in life that may impact your future?

It's all about image .... and I think this fellow will learn that image is important for his livelihood, as it is for an airline pilot.



Rosetta Mission scientist apologizes for wearing 'sexist' shirt covered in half-naked cartoon women

http://www.cbc.ca/newsblogs/yourcommuni ... women.html

[oldyellr]

That says it all. The world is run by narrow minded, politically correct people, who see sexism, racism and whatever else lurking everywhere. If you want to get hired and get ahead, you better toe the line and conform to their standards. If not, you'd better be so good at what you do that you're indispensable.

[rooster]

Hate to say it, but here at AC, you'd likely get drummed out of the organization during probation at some point by a junior manager trying to make a name for themselves. Best not to hide it, as they'll find out at some point and make your life miserable.

It is a form of discrimination, I know, however, public image is super important to Major Airlines, and they severely frown upon anything like visible tattoos. It just goes against the "conservative" " straight" philosophy that they're trying to convey. I remember a nice guy who came to the ops centre for an interview. He had nice blue suit and a very neatly trimmed beard, having just returned from the Antarctic. He was back out in the hallway within 3 minutes after entering the interview room.

Personally, I've never come across anyone at AC with noticeable tattoos anywhere. Don't think they ever make it past the interview process. Sorry to say but I think you'd be out of luck. Not to say that there aren't very rewarding careers other than the Majors. Good luck.

DP.

Ridiculous statement. Plenty of AC pilots (new and old) with tattoos. If you look close enough, it doesn't take much to notice. I saw a guy with script running down to his elbow and another image on his fore-arm. He was a young f/o on the embraer.

Don't let these know-it-alls scare you away and tell you that you are SOL and that there are other careers out there. I've seen pilots from MANY majors in North America with tattoos ranging from single small print to large full sleeves. They are out there. I'd definitely take the advice of a long sleeve until you get a course date and finish training, maybe even probation. Otherwise, don't sweat it too much.

Good luck

[Diadem]

Interesting choice of using the Rosetta scientist in this discussion.....didn't someone earlier in the thread talk about making correct decisions in life that may impact your future?

It's all about image .... and I think this fellow will learn that image is important for his livelihood, as it is for an airline pilot.



Rosetta Mission scientist apologizes for wearing 'sexist' shirt covered in half-naked cartoon women

http://www.cbc.ca/newsblogs/yourcommuni ... women.html

The "sexist" shirt was made for him by a female friend for his birthday. Besides, should he not have been hired to do that job because he didn't present the proper "image"? Should they have gotten less capable people to do something as groundbreaking as landing a spacecraft on a comet because they wore suits and ties to the office? It's a good thing scientists are less concerned about looking presentable than they are about who's capable of doing the best job; I sure hope we don't have airlines full of underqualified pilots because the best ones didn't "look" right.

[Collidingwiththesky]

I think if you want to get one, then get one. But, be smart about it. Make sure you can cover it up easily. Tattooing your forehead is not a good idea. Smh

[EPR]

Just spotted this about tattoo removal!
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/ ... -1.2838498

[NeverBlue]

Does it say whether or not he had to sign a contract? 

...I'm laughing so hard I'm crying.

I'd love to hear that radio "tone". Where you out of Meat?