Air Can

[flyinhigh]

Uh oh. Happy to see everyone ok.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Can ... story.html

[dukepoint]

Not drawing any conclusions, pending the investigation, but my guess is they were likely grabbed by a serious gust in the flare.

When you get into a "low energy" state with the engines at idle just before the flare, in an aircraft that likely weighed close to 240,000 lbs at the time.........you're kinda along for the ride. This could have happened to anyone. I feel for the boys.

Just one of "them things".....nothing to do with ability, or stick and rudder skills.....it's a physics thing.

DP.

[Krimson]

you're kinda along for the ride. This could have happened to anyone. I feel for the boys.

Just one of "them things".....nothing to do with ability, or stick and rudder skills.....it's a physics thing.

What about the ability or stick and rudder skills to not get in that position to begin with?

[SymbolA310]

It must have been foreign pilots on FLVC. Something like this cannot happen to a canadien.

[Gino Under]

We´ll see what the outcome reveals but stick and rudder skills would certainly go a long way in any gusty crosswind. I wouldn´t sell this crew down the river just yet.

SymbolA310
I don´t think foreign pilots on any LVC whether it´s a Canadian LVC or any other country´s LVC they´re flying under for that matter, are exempt from sliding off a runway or running into any other situation that might lead to an accident. It can happen to anyone and Canadians are no exception.
You might want to review that Air India Express B737 NG accident in Mangalore, India back in 2010. Foreign Captain with an LVC from the Indian DGAC dropped one in following a botched landing attempt.

As for the smug humour, those who object to foreign pilots working in Canada under the present Canadian pilot market realities, such as myself, have no issue with foreign pilots and their ability. It´s the round about way Canadian pilot´s are getting screwed by not only the companies involved but by our own government that´s the issue. It´s odd that you don´t seem to get that?

Gino

[dukepoint]

you're kinda along for the ride. This could have happened to anyone. I feel for the boys.

Just one of "them things".....nothing to do with ability, or stick and rudder skills.....it's a physics thing.

What about the ability or stick and rudder skills to not get in that position to begin with?

Clearly you have zero heavy time.

Read what I wrote again, then read up on "low energy state" in "handling the big jets", then understand that nearly a quarter million pounds are in play, then think back on Physics 12.......Newton's laws to be specific.....this ain't no Navajo.

Yes it could happen to you, unless you have some supernatural ability to predict wind gusts.

Caveat: Assuming my gust prediction is correct, which it may not.

DP.

[Bede]

Seems like a non-event: From CADORS via Google Translate:

A A330-300 operated by Air Canada ( ACA875 ) , Frankfurt ( EDDF ) to Montreal , QC ( CYUL ) , made a partial exit track on the east side to the runway 24R and then returned to the track for out by the traffic lane B2 . Some runway lights were damaged.

Not quite as dramatic as the media made it out to be.

Anyways, back to arguing...

Read what I wrote again, then read up on "low energy state" in "handling the big jets", then understand that nearly a quarter million pounds are in play, then think back on Physics 12.......Newton's laws to be specific.....this ain't no Navajo.

Which one of Newton's law's would that be?

I would tend to think that a more massive aircraft would be less likely to be blown off a runway than a smaller aircraft.

[crj_705]

I bet you that AC F/O was grabbing for that magic can of spray paint for the tail from his flight bag! But alas, it was only an 'incident'...


Weather History

18Z CYUL CLR 15SM 10/09 290/08 29.94


P.S. And the wind was almost gusting to 10Kts!

[URC]

The incident date was Tuesday (7th) at 12:35 EDT (16:35 UTC)

SPECI CYUL 071630Z 24006KT 2SM -TSRA FEW010 BKN025CB OVC050 17/12 A2987 RMK SF1CB5SC2 E-S 8

Maybe the decision to land into an active thunderstorm had something to do with it ? The METAR SPECI doesn't tell the whole story, it was much worse than that.

[FL410]

The METAR one minute after the incident is more telling:

CYUL 071636Z 27018G27KT 200V280 3SM -TSRA FEW012 BKN025CB OVC048 14/10 A2989 RMK SF1CB4SC3 VIS S 15 PRESRR SLP122

[URC]

DP

supernatural ability to predict wind gusts.

Supernatural ? Where did you get your pilots licence ? Out of a Cracker Jack Box ? THUNDERSTORMS = WIND GUSTS. I think any day one student pilot could tell you that. But hey as long as his shirt was tucked in ....

[dukepoint]

DP

supernatural ability to predict wind gusts.

Supernatural ? Where did you get your pilots licence ? Out of a Cracker Jack Box ? THUNDERSTORMS = WIND GUSTS. I think any day one student pilot could tell you that. But hey as long as his shirt was tucked in ....

Sorry, did I touch a tender spot?

Major airlines land with thunderstorms around all the time. Ever been to Houston, Tx? Probably not.

For the record, as ironic as it is, I love Cracker Jacks! My favorite snack. Found some pilot wings once.....but the problem was, all the new Cracker Jack prizes are made of paper.

[dukepoint]

Seems like a non-event: From CADORS via Google Translate:

A A330-300 operated by Air Canada ( ACA875 ) , Frankfurt ( EDDF ) to Montreal , QC ( CYUL ) , made a partial exit track on the east side to the runway 24R and then returned to the track for out by the traffic lane B2 . Some runway lights were damaged.

Not quite as dramatic as the media made it out to be.

Anyways, back to arguing...

Read what I wrote again, then read up on "low energy state" in "handling the big jets", then understand that nearly a quarter million pounds are in play, then think back on Physics 12.......Newton's laws to be specific.....this ain't no Navajo.

Which one of Newton's law's would that be?

I would tend to think that a more massive aircraft would be less likely to be blown off a runway than a smaller aircraft.

Bede, I thought you flew jets. If a large aircraft in a "low energy state" ( engines at idle, in the flare), encounters a serious side gust, it has little available to counter the anomaly. Large triple spool fans like the Trent 772 don't wind up nearly as fast as the CFM-56 that you're likely used to. Combine that with the very wide footprint of a 330, and voila.....goodbye runway lights.

FWIW.......it would be Newton's very first law.

DP.

[URC]

DP,

Major airlines land with thunderstorms around all the time. Ever been to Houston, Tx? Probably not.

That makes it right. You're in denial or just stupid. The fact remains an Airbus A330 went off the runway. Hopefully we can all learn something from this, but judging by your responses I'm not holding my breath. It's interesting to note the crew of the Jazz Dash-8 that was following the incident aircraft elected to abondon the approach to avoid the storm.

[Stu Pidasso]

A friendly reminder to all those out there that habitually DO NOT land on the centerline.

[DH772]

It's interesting to note the crew of the Jazz Dash-8 that was following the incident aircraft elected to abondon the approach to avoid the storm.

Darwin post of the year!!
That comment is so stupid I can't even fathom a response.
Speechless!

[URC]

That comment is so stupid I can't even fathom a response.

What comment ? It's simply an observation of a known fact. The comments from the Q400 that landed in front of the incident aircraft are telling as well. Hopefully the TSB will be doing a full investigation.

[dashx]

So it's not just the CBC that has something against Air Canada ....the Montreal Gazette now as well.....

but wait......



Is this airplane drifting, sliding or slipping away from the bridge??

Perhaps Simon and Garfunkel have the answer.

Damn the English language and those that invented it!!!!!!

[7dirty7]

So it's not just the CBC that has something against Air Canada ....the Montreal Gazette now as well.....

but wait......



Is this airplane drifting, sliding or slipping away from the bridge??

Perhaps Simon and Garfunkel have the answer.

Damn the English language and those that invented it!!!!!!

I love how that guy is like "no problem guys I got this, I will just hold this little 737 in place here..."

[davecessna]

Man, you dinosaurs love taking potshots at each other.

[zulutime]

I'm glad to see that was a Westjet aircraft and not an Air Canada plane. Otherwise, the majority of members here would be calling for the Captain's head for not having the ailerons properly turned into the wind while sitting at the gate!!!!