Canadian Jetlines five Boeing 737 MAX 7's

[loopa]

You could very well be right, I'm just going based on airline pilot central's statistics. When you look at the salaries, a Spirit 320 fo or captain actually ends up making more than an ac 320 fo or captain or a 320 captain at Delta.

So on that point I was curious why you felt someone making more as a F/O and Captain at Spirit would be the kind of individual driving this industry down any more than a fo or captain at air canada who end up making less after 12 years.

[Legacy]

We must be looking at different numbers Loopa cause I see both AC and DAL pilots making more. In fact I believe DAL is one of the highest paid in the US if I remember correctly.

[loopa]

That's what I thought too, unless Airline Pilot Central is wrong (which it has been before). But if those figures are correct, a spirit pilot wouldn't be the reason this industry is being driven downwards. At least not in my opinion.

So here's a question. If Jet Naked and Jetlines were to offer similar salaries to Spirit, would a pilot taking a job there be selfish or industry promoting? 72k/yr in the right seat of a narrow-body jet is far better than anything else out there in Canada isn't it? Mind you this is all based on min guarantee. You may end up making quite a bit more.

[MRP]

I would like to hear your point of view on how you feel someone making 109k/yr at Spirit as a 12 year fo will drive the industry down any more than an Air Canada 319/320 first officer making 102k/yr in their 12th year? Similarly when discussing 12th year captain salaries. 170k/yr salary as 320 Captain at Spirit versus 152k/yr as Captain at AC on the 320? All values in Canadian dollars. Source: http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/

Loopa I don't know about those Air Canada numbers you just threw out there so let me correct you so that you can use more realistic numbers in your comparison. As of April 2014, at 12 year level mainline 320: FO 131K CA $198K. Old numbers from last year assuming an average of about 83 hrs a month. Under the new contract the CA would make over 200.

[Legacy]

Yeah I think we are seeing different numbers for whatever reason. Sorry for the confusion. But I can almost predict these companies are going to offer bottom of the barrel wages. Pilots have to know how this affects the whole industry. Next time AC's , WJ , TS has a contract come up these low paying companies get thrown in the comparison mix and give a reason for AC, WJ, TS to drop their current wages. So for the pilots thinking "well I will just go to Jetlines, get experience, then jump ship to AC, WJ, AT" to only find that WAWCON has dropped due to companies like Jetlines. Pilots are such short term thinkers. In essence we are frigging stupid but we think we are smart. Jetlines put a deposit on 5 NEW 37's? Tells me if they can take that risk then they can afford to pay ABOVE average salaries then. But they will use the excuse that they are just starting so we have to pay gutless salaries. Well then you shouldn't have ordered NEW 737s then!!! Mark my words, it's coming. Personally I hope they never even open a door. We don't need any more airlines in this country. Any companies that start now are just in it for the quick short term buck knowing a bankruptcy is on the near horizon.

[loopa]

Thanks for the updated numbers MRP.

Legacy, I see better what you're saying now. Very insightful and I couldn't agree with you more now that I see your point of view.

That being said, the numbers posted by Spirit aren't bad, and definitely above your typical ULC outfit in the states. I would think pilot's accepting jobs at the likes of Compass are more or less the types that drive this industry down. But that's my two cents.

[Donald]

Jetlines put a deposit on 5 NEW 37's? Tells me if they can take that risk then they can afford to pay ABOVE average salaries then. But they will use the excuse that they are just starting so we have to pay gutless salaries.

Reminds me of WestJet Encore.

[Legacy]

Encore wages are under par and I think everyone knows that. WJ definitely cheaped out there

[leftoftrack]

Jetlines put a deposit on 5 NEW 37's? Tells me if they can take that risk then they can afford to pay ABOVE average salaries then. But they will use the excuse that they are just starting so we have to pay gutless salaries.

Reminds me of WestJet Encore.

Reminds me of westjet. Risk in the begining with a huge upside if it works out. If Canada jet lines is a success your on the top of a seniority group, and hopefully low initial wages will be offset by ownership.

[Realitychex]

Jetlines put a deposit on 5 NEW 37's? Tells me if they can take that risk then they can afford to pay ABOVE average salaries then. But they will use the excuse that they are just starting so we have to pay gutless salaries.

Reminds me of WestJet Encore.

Reminds me of westjet. Risk in the begining with a huge upside if it works out. If Canada jet lines is a success your on the top of a seniority group, and hopefully low initial wages will be offset by ownership.

Jetline's updated preliminary prospectus shows a cash position of under $500k at September 30th 2014.

That isn't enough to pay for a set of blended winglets, let alone be enough to be leveraged into buying and putting into service a clapped out 737-300.

A "firm" order for $225m of airplanes? They couldn't even come remotely close to coming up with a 1% deposit.

The so called "firm order" is contingent on all kinds of events, starting with their raising a ton of capital. Operating a single asm might be useful too.

The nature and reason behind the "firm order" will become apparent when Boeing and Airbus release their annual "mine is bigger than yours" list of who "sold" more airplanes in 2014.

[tincanflyer]

It was posted on Boeings website last week......only form are posted.
http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/index.cfm

[Told Card Writer]

When they first started they said they had done market studies and concluded the A319/320 was the prefect aircraft for the job. Now all of a sudden the A319/320 isn't the right choice. So if they were wrong about their first choice of aircraft. That doesn't say much about the business model. What else could they wrong about? Probably a lot more.

[seafeye]

Well i am a US RJ captain (10 year). Last year I made $150,000CDN.

I would need to make at least that to fly a 737. Especially in Canada. It's a lot cheaper to live in the USA.
Time for these companies to "Show me the money!".

[cdnpilot77]

So pay the captains $150k as you say and pay the f/o's $19k like the do at the U.S. regionals?