First flight will new PPL! And first abnormality in flight

[.Ben]

I passed my flight test back in June but due to being away on military training in the summer I had to wait until after to get the written test done, wrote and passed the written and finally got the shiny new PPL! of course when you have a new licence in hand the weather turns on you and we had no good VFR days for 9 days straight but finally we got some good weather, set up a time to rent the plane, decided on taking my dad as a first passenger we arrive, excited, only to find the plane covered in a think layer of crunchy ice from freezing rain in the previous day's with no heated hanger available it was over for the day, moved the plane into the sun and decided to try again tomorrow.

The next day the plane was clear as was the sky and it was go time, did a good preflight making sure there was no ice hiding anywhere, hopped in fired it up and we were off! I think I will always remember throttling up the first time with a licence felt different than a solo training flight, it was awesome!

I glacé down at the ASI passing 30 knots, 50 knots, 60 knots Rotate! Getting airborne the first time with a full licence was memorable as well I glace down at the ASI again to set Vy, and it's at 55 knots and falling fast.... It was obvious we were not at 20 knots so I continued the climb and flipped the pitot heat switch, it seemed to clear up at we cleared the circuit, got a few miles south and noticed we now also had no altimeter, or VSI and the ASI was dropped to 20 knots again turned her back towards the field and pulled the Alt static source the altimeter spun around in a blur a few times and seemed to read close to correct, chose to ignore the instruments and landed uneventfully, there was no ice on the static port or pitot tube, so must have froze in the lines maybe? Not my airplane, we had 4 days of rain and it was -15C the morning before the flight.

All in all my dad loved the short flight and is talking about airplanes all the time now, that was his first flight in a light aircraft since a friend took him out over 30 years ago, can't wait to get out again!

Thanks for good reading throughout the licence process Avcanada!

[Cat Driver]

I glacé down at the ASI passing 30 knots, 50 knots, 60 knots Rotate

Now that you are a licensed pilot you need to rethink why you would be looking at the airspeed indicator as you are accelerating on the runway on take off.

You should be looking outside for your take off visual clues...especially holding the center line.

Congrats on your first flying after getting the license.

[Meatservo]

You might be tempted to think that there is nothing more exciting than your first flight with your new license, but actually it just keeps getting better as long as you remember what the first one felt like. Congratulations.

[Jack Klumpus]

I glacé down at the ASI passing 30 knots, 50 knots, 60 knots Rotate

Now that you are a licensed pilot you need to rethink why you would be looking at the airspeed indicator as you are accelerating on the runway on take off.

You should be looking outside for your take off visual clues...especially holding the center line.

Congrats on your first flying after getting the license.

Is This is the best advise you can tell this new Private pilot after completing his first flight?

With someone experienced like yourself, I would expect more, but I'm not surprised.

To the original poster, many of us had the same issue. During the take off roll, you cross check your airspeed to make sure it's working, properly.

[.Ben]

I glacé down at the ASI passing 30 knots, 50 knots, 60 knots Rotate

Now that you are a licensed pilot you need to rethink why you would be looking at the airspeed indicator as you are accelerating on the runway on take off.

You should be looking outside for your take off visual clues...especially holding the center line.

Congrats on your first flying after getting the license.

I totally agree Cat, I think the way I described it in the part you quoted made it seem like I was staring at the ASI, after applying full power I take a quick look at the panel and ensure the engine is stable and the ASI is coming up "gauges green, airspeed live" the rest is mostly by feel and as you said visual cues outside, the airplane will fly when it's ready

[white_knuckle_flyer]

Now that you are a licensed pilot you need to rethink why you would be looking at the airspeed indicator as you are accelerating on the runway on take off.

Given the entirety of the OP's story, I would think that this comment is a little out of place. Could be my naivety, but I think the fact that he kept a level head in the midst of having no ASI / VSI / ALT , especially with his dad sitting next to him on his maiden PPL flight is pretty commendable.

As a newb, it is pretty easy to get discouraged in a forum where practically everyone knows more than you. My instructor taught me to look outside and inside the cockpit during the takeoff roll. Am I supposed to just know when I have reached rotation speed or whether my oil pressure is in the green ?

Although a wealth of information abides here, I think those who have been flying practically their whole lives may forget that at one time, they too relied on a few rote-type, mechanically performed techniques when first flying.

Don't get disheartened fellow newbie....there was nothing in your story that you need be embarrassed about, IMO.

[Cat Driver]

I totally agree Cat, I think the way I described it in the part you quoted made it seem like I was staring at the ASI, after applying full power I take a quick look at the panel and ensure the engine is stable and the ASI is coming up "gauges green, airspeed live" the rest is mostly by feel and as you said visual cues outside, the airplane will fly when it's ready

Thank you, all I was doing was suggesting that the important actions during take off in light training aircraft is maintaining the center line and reaching lift off speed at the correct angle of attack at which point the airplane will fly off the runway without needing to rotate it.

By the time you have received your PPL you should know the correct position of the elevator to attain the correct angle of attack at the desired lift off speed.

Logic dictates that the time frame involved in accelerating to lift off speed in a light airplane will be between ten and fifteen seconds.

Checking oil pressure etc. during this very short time frame only distracts you from what is really important...maintaining a straight take off run and assuring the proper angle of attack is attained at lift off speed.

If the engine explodes during the take off roll you do not have to worry about it leaping into the air and crashing back to earth.

To the rest of you who get all bent out of shape about my posting style please use the feature on this site that blocks my posts so you don't get so offended.

[Bede]

Thank you, all I was doing was suggesting that the important actions during take off in light training aircraft is maintaining the center line and reaching lift off speed at the correct angle of attack at which point the airplane will fly off the runway without needing to rotate it.

By the time you have received your PPL you should know the correct position of the elevator to attain the correct angle of attack at the desired lift off speed.

Huh?

[AirMail]

I guess according to Cat, VR apparently is just an imaginary suggestive number. As you saw the ASI lies. So never trust it, never look at it, fly by the seat of those tight pants!

[Cat Driver]

Oh boy.....I sure know how to step in it in these conversations.

So let me be a little more specific.

A light airplane such as the common Cessna is not a high performance machine and is about as simple to take off and land as can be designed..I suspect the OP was flying an airplane similar to a light single engine Cessna.

If you hold the up elevator sufficient to keep the nose wheel fairly light and wait until the nose rises to the take off attitude and hold that attitude, it will fly off the runway without having to physically rotate the nose higher.

A Cessna is not a high performance airplane and can be flown quite safely by using visual attitudes crossed checked by reference to the instruments such as the airspeed indicator in this phase of flight.....

.....excessive time spent watching the airspeed reading on the runway is not really necessary.

Excessive airspeed monitoring is quite common among a lot of low time pilots and shows up in the climb as they airspeed chase resulting in a roller coaster climb path.

The nice thing about flying airplanes is you all are free to fly it any way you choose, if you do not agree with my thoughts on the art of flying that is quite O.K. with me, so far my way has worked quite well for me.

[loopa]

Thank you, all I was doing was suggesting that the important actions during take off in light training aircraft is maintaining the center line and reaching lift off speed at the correct angle of attack at which point the airplane will fly off the runway without needing to rotate it.

By the time you have received your PPL you should know the correct position of the elevator to attain the correct angle of attack at the desired lift off speed.

Huh?

+1

What's wrong with you Bede, have you never tried that in the 737? Works great on the 800... LOL (only between trim settings of 5.0 to 7.0 ANU)

AAHAHAHHA I haven't laughed that much in a long time Bede, you honestly deserve post of the year. That was the perfect response.

Cat I don't think anybody here is offended by your writing style. You bring a lot of insight to these forums and I have learned things reading your contributions. At the present time however I don't agree with your statement, but I also don't have your experience level so maybe I'll stand corrected in the coming years.

[Cat Driver]

AAHAHAHHA I haven't laughed that much in a long time Bede, you honestly deserve post of the year. That was the perfect response.

Are you claiming that the description of holding the nose in the takeoff attitude in a Cessna until it fly's off does not work....a Cessna has to be flown like a 737?

Cat I don't think anybody here is offended by your writing style. You bring a lot of insight to these forums and I have learned a thing of two from you. At the present time however I don't agree with your statement, but I also don't have your experience level so maybe I'll stand corrected in the coming years.

Thanks..

My intention was to point out to the OP that it is not necessary to monitor the airspeed to the extent his first post indicated.....

I glacé down at the ASI passing 30 knots, 50 knots, 60 knots Rotate!

The airplane will fly off the runway quite nicely if you maintain a slightly nose high attitude which will result in lift off as airspeed and angle of attack meet to provide the lift for take off.

I am not suggesting he not be aware of the airspeed readings....I am suggesting it is not necessary to watch it that closely during the few seconds the airplane is accelerating to lift off speed, instead spend that time looking outside rather than inside.

Airplanes fly based on speed and angle of attack and being aware of those two things will make for easier airplane control.

[loopa]

AAHAHAHHA I haven't laughed that much in a long time Bede, you honestly deserve post of the year. That was the perfect response.

Are you claiming that the description of holding the nose in the takeoff attitude in a Cessna until it fly's off does not work....a Cessna has to be flown like a 737?

No it does work, I just don't agree with your opinion on the priorities during takeoff roll. But like I said, I respect that you know a ton more about this than me so I am open to standing corrected one day.

Yes Cat, I am in full agreement that a Cessna has to be flown like a 737, there's no other way. Autopilot on at 1200 feet.

Happy new year and keep the good contributions coming Cat

[Big Pistons Forever]

I take a quick look at the panel and ensure the engine is stable and the ASI is coming up "gauges green, airspeed live" the rest is mostly by feel and as you said visual cues outside, the airplane will fly when it's ready

Sounds like you are doing the takeoff just fine.

A few things to think about.

1) Before you go to full power set the elevator to a slightly nose up position. This will immediately take a bit of the load of the poor nose wheel

2) Don't jam throttle in. it should take about 3 seconds to get the throttle in.

3) When you feel the throttle has gone all the way in give a quick look inside. You want to check 2 things. First is the engine showing a value in the POH static RPM range (it will usually be around 2300- 2400 RPM, but is model specific) and then is the oil pressure and oil temp in the green. I call this the "Good Engine" check. It should take 2 seconds max and then your eyes should be back outside. You can then do a quick check to see if the airspeed is working as you see the aircraft visibly accelerating ( although personally I don't bother with this check) and then at around the 50 kt mark pitch up to the tskeoff attitude. At this point there is no need to look inside because as you correctly pointed out the aircraft will lift off when it is ready

[GyvAir]

What's all the fuss about? I got the gist of what Cat meant. The OP got the gist of it. Cat's posts may not always be held up as examples of flawless tact and diplomacy, but the ones in this thread? I don't see a problem. As far as the whole elevator, rotation, pitch, angle of attack comment that's being jumped all over, we all knew this had to be a simple training type aircraft, as Cat has already pointed out. I was taught the very same thing he's talking about. Also by a 20,000+ hour accident free pilot who probably couldn't list all the types he'd flown during his career if you had all afternoon to sit and listen.

Happy New Year, people.. let's try to keep it that way!

[Cat Driver]

See in the end we all agree on the basics of what I was suggesting.

The proof of attitude and speed control is best appreciated in low level flying such as ag flying, fire bombing and very low level aerobatics.....

Example..

Getting an ag plane close to the ground for the spray run when approaching the field over trees requires very accurate speed and attitude control.....your life span may be very short if you have to check the airspeed reading to determine when to flare for the spray run down the field.

[loopa]

The proof of attitude and speed control is best appreciated in low level flying such as ag flying, fire bombing and very low level aerobatics.....

Example..

Getting an ag plane close to the ground for the spray run when approaching the field over trees requires very accurate speed and attitude control.....your life span may be very short if you have to check the airspeed reading to determine when to flare for the spray run down the field.

Great post. Couldn't agree any more.

[white_knuckle_flyer]

I'm sure the OP is being gracious in giving CAT the benefit of the doubt, as he should. But he was likely also a little befuddled by what was NOT said, as opposed to what was said. The OP was relaying an interesting story about something unusual that happened and was probably looking for some enlightenment on that subject, not a comment on some other aspect of his flight.

If I told my wife that on the way to the store, I gave a hitchhiker a ride and then on my way home I saw that a nieghbour's house on fire, I would be surprised if her first question was "Do you think it is safe to pick up hitchhikers" ?

I still want to know why his ASI went bonkers. Was his suggestion that there was freezing somewhere within the static line a reasonable one ?

[piperdriver]

Although I do not always agree with Cat Driver I do agree with him on this issue. A lot of PPL students tend to keep their eyes focused inside the cockpit and I myself was no different. Now that I fly floats I don't even look at the airspeed indicator until I am well off the water. Staring at the airspeed indicator will not help you get up on step and will not help you find that perfect angle of attack needed to accelerate on the step. This comes by feel and keeping your eyes outside the aircraft.

Remember KISS and Attitude + Power = Performance.

Will this help the original poster? Probably not but thought I would share my opinion anyway.

Anyway back on topic. Was the aircraft inspected by an AME following this incident? You could check with them to see what they found.

[davecessna]

He's trying to usurp the dearly departed Colonel.

My eyes always dart to the ASI during takeoff and climb. If it's working, why not check it. I remember my instructor postittying my ASI during PPL circuit training and seeing how terrible I was at judging approach airspeed.

[Cat Driver]

He's trying to usurp the dearly departed Colonel.

Yeh, that is what I always wanted to do, now he is gone I'll have to work on it.

One of the least taught and understood methods of situational awareness is using peripheral vision.

Somewhere back in time someone decided that scanning the instruments sounded like a great idea and from that inspiration came the " Instrument scan " concept of using instruments as a partial or complete means for maintaining or changing the flight path of an airplane.

Scanning means there is a temporary halt in the picture the eye is transmitting to the brain as you stop at each instrument and thus information and reaction to the information is chopped up into separate bites of the picture.

I was taught to " See " the flight instruments as a package and operate the flight controls as needed to point the airplane where I want it to go.

For instance.....you are chugging along straight and level at 1000 feet VFR looking outside of the cockpit for situational awareness......the instrument you most rely on the maintain 1000 feet is the altimeter.....you do not need to look down at the altimeter to confirm the needle is at or near zero because you should be able to see it in your peripheral vision.

At least that is how I was taught and that is how I do it ...and how I teach it..

...and it works just fine for me and the students I taught.

[Cat Driver]

Maybe my ideas on how to fly are ancient because some of my early lessons and the aids to flying were a bit primitive, for instance flying the airways was done by sound alone.

But as time passed I did learn some modern methods to navigate such as RNS in the last machine I was in.

[Illya Kuryakin]

Ben
Congrats on the new PPL! Ignore the hissing and spitting. Some can't comment on anything without a slap fight breaking out. LOL!
Anyway, enjoy your new found freedom. Play safe.
Illya

[.Ben]

Ben
Congrats on the new PPL! Ignore the hissing and spitting. Some can't comment on anything without a slap fight breaking out. LOL!
Anyway, enjoy your new found freedom. Play safe.
Illya

I've been reading this forum for a long time, it would not be any fun if everyone agreed on everyone and no one had anything to point out or say

Bring back the Colonel!

An AME was consulted and everything was found to be functioning normally, I still think moisture/ice was to blame.

[Meddler]

Not much else it could be. In a vfr light trainer, nbd. Good thing to remember happening down the road when you start thinking ifr tho.