WJ encore and the regionals

[ReserveTank]

Year 4 $78.80 $75,648

You have to be kidding. I make this flying a piston twin.

[Switchfoot]

Year 4 $78.80 $75,648

You have to be kidding. I make this flying a piston twin.

What kind of travel benefits do you have flying that piston twin? How about long and short term disability? Profit share? Happy crew and managers who support you in everyday line ops? Want to earn a few more $? Pick-up a shift for some OT or work a stat holiday. Want to go some place warm for days off... done. And for significantly less using your benefits and less than you'll pay with your 75K salary.

To each their own, and maybe you're trolling.. if so, go brag elsewhere.


Either way, have fun. I am.

[ReserveTank]

Year 4 $78.80 $75,648

You have to be kidding. I make this flying a piston twin.

What kind of travel benefits do you have flying that piston twin? How about long and short term disability? Profit share? Happy crew and managers who support you in everyday line ops? Want to earn a few more $? Pick-up a shift for some OT or work a stat holiday. Want to go some place warm for days off... done. And for significantly less using your benefits and less than you'll pay with your 75K salary.

To each their own, and maybe you're trolling.. if so, go brag elsewhere.


Either way, have fun. I am.

Travel benefits on 8 European airlines, all US carriers, 1 Central American carrier, and 3 Canadian carriers. CASS (got that?). I paid $0 to fly to Europe twice this summer. Retirement plan with company contribution. Profit sharing. Open block time always available with overtime pay AND incentive pay added. Stat holidays paid regardless if worked. Personal time accrued rolls over. Sure, I if want to go somewhere warm, I can just bid for a warmer base in the winter. Caribbean warm enough? Southern Ontario in the summer, no prob. Relocation allowance paid 2x per year for VOLUNTARY relocations. Medical reimbursed. 3-4 star hotels on TDY assignments. Rental car and hotel discount program.

But hey, $30 something thousand to fly a Dash is great too.

[mattjvancouver]

Travel benefits on 8 European airlines, all US carriers, 1 Central American carrier, and 3 Canadian carriers. CASS (got that?). I paid $0 to fly to Europe twice this summer. Retirement plan with company contribution. Profit sharing. Open block time always available with overtime pay AND incentive pay added. Stat holidays paid regardless if worked. Personal time accrued rolls over. Sure, I if want to go somewhere warm, I can just bid for a warmer base in the winter. Caribbean warm enough? Southern Ontario in the summer, no prob. Relocation allowance paid 2x per year for VOLUNTARY relocations. Medical reimbursed. 3-4 star hotels on TDY assignments. Rental car and hotel discount program.

But hey, $30 something thousand to fly a Dash is great too.

+1

[volez]

Hmmm care to disclose which company you two are working for ? It almost sounds too good to be true

[loopa]

Travel benefits on 8 European airlines, all US carriers, 1 Central American carrier, and 3 Canadian carriers. CASS (got that?). I paid $0 to fly to Europe twice this summer. Retirement plan with company contribution. Profit sharing. Open block time always available with overtime pay AND incentive pay added. Stat holidays paid regardless if worked. Personal time accrued rolls over. Sure, I if want to go somewhere warm, I can just bid for a warmer base in the winter. Caribbean warm enough? Southern Ontario in the summer, no prob. Relocation allowance paid 2x per year for VOLUNTARY relocations. Medical reimbursed. 3-4 star hotels on TDY assignments. Rental car and hotel discount program.

But hey, $30 something thousand to fly a Dash is great too.

Sounds like you have a great gig Matt.

I am curious though, if we consider today's rates, what kind of Job Security, Yearly Income, and Retirement will a Dec 25th, 2014 Encore hire have in 15 years when they are Captains on a 737 or a wide body, compared to you? I find a lot of jobs that aren't the airlines that pay above industry standard/benefits, etc are great for the short term. But long term, these jobs either a) don't exist in 15 years, or b) won't make you much more money than already present. I could be wrong, and am not speaking about your company. Just my general understanding of how it works. Regardless, enjoy it man!

Whoever you fly for, fly safe, have fun, and enjoy what you do.

[mattjvancouver]

Travel benefits on 8 European airlines, all US carriers, 1 Central American carrier, and 3 Canadian carriers. CASS (got that?). I paid $0 to fly to Europe twice this summer. Retirement plan with company contribution. Profit sharing. Open block time always available with overtime pay AND incentive pay added. Stat holidays paid regardless if worked. Personal time accrued rolls over. Sure, I if want to go somewhere warm, I can just bid for a warmer base in the winter. Caribbean warm enough? Southern Ontario in the summer, no prob. Relocation allowance paid 2x per year for VOLUNTARY relocations. Medical reimbursed. 3-4 star hotels on TDY assignments. Rental car and hotel discount program.

But hey, $30 something thousand to fly a Dash is great too.

Sounds like you have a great gig Matt.

I am curious though, if we consider today's rates, what kind of Job Security, Yearly Income, and Retirement will a Dec 25th, 2014 Encore hire have in 15 years when they are Captains on a 737 or a wide body, compared to you? I find a lot of jobs that aren't the airlines that pay above industry standard/benefits, etc are great for the short term. But long term, these jobs either a) don't exist in 15 years, or b) won't make you much more money than already present. I could be wrong, and am not speaking about your company. Just my general understanding of how it works. Regardless, enjoy it man!

Whoever you fly for, fly safe, have fun, and enjoy what you do.

Ahh sorry not me! Was just quoting the other guy. I wish I had all that!

[iflyforpie]

Travel benefits on 8 European airlines, all US carriers, 1 Central American carrier, and 3 Canadian carriers. CASS (got that?). I paid $0 to fly to Europe twice this summer. Retirement plan with company contribution. Profit sharing. Open block time always available with overtime pay AND incentive pay added. Stat holidays paid regardless if worked. Personal time accrued rolls over. Sure, I if want to go somewhere warm, I can just bid for a warmer base in the winter. Caribbean warm enough? Southern Ontario in the summer, no prob. Relocation allowance paid 2x per year for VOLUNTARY relocations. Medical reimbursed. 3-4 star hotels on TDY assignments. Rental car and hotel discount program.

But hey, $30 something thousand to fly a Dash is great too.

Sounds like you have a great gig Matt.

I am curious though, if we consider today's rates, what kind of Job Security, Yearly Income, and Retirement will a Dec 25th, 2014 Encore hire have in 15 years when they are Captains on a 737 or a wide body, compared to you? I find a lot of jobs that aren't the airlines that pay above industry standard/benefits, etc are great for the short term. But long term, these jobs either a) don't exist in 15 years, or b) won't make you much more money than already present. I could be wrong, and am not speaking about your company. Just my general understanding of how it works. Regardless, enjoy it man!

Whoever you fly for, fly safe, have fun, and enjoy what you do.

15 years ago..... somebody might have been saying Canadi>n Regional on their way up to the mighty 747 or DC-10........

The only guarantees in this industry is that there aren't any.....

[loopa]

You have a valid point.

Just like no body believed the WJ product when it first initiated, and 16 years later those who were in at the beginning are laughing back...

Since we are proposing the idea of aviation being a gamble, I still standby my comment. I would much rather gamble on a position at Encore versus a navajo gig no matter how great the conditions were on the navajo.

Also if both jobs were to tank in 15 years, the airline pilot will probably have less issues finding high paying/good lifestyle work elsewhere with their type rating, exp, etc than say a Navajo driver.

That's my 2 cents, I could be wrong. There certainly are more sectors to aviation than airline flying and one can be successful in any sector they choose, as I'm sure you'd quite strongly agree with pie.

[rocket81]

What sort of retirement plan do you get from 32 000$ salary?

I don't see why WJ must grab pilots from Encore? The day WJ will only hire of Encore, it will be an other discussion.

[loopa]

What sort of retirement plan do you get from 32 000$ salary?

I don't believe an Encore pilot makes 32k/yr at any point in their career. Most of the time spent at Encore will be as a Captain. The one list at WestJet is a great incentive to any Encore pilot which is the answer to your retirement question. Especially if you're a young individual. Get in while you're young, and get a seniority number. If you qualify to go direct into the 737, then you should be able to skip Encore. If you don't qualify to go into the 737, then Encore is a great way to secure long-term career (with due consideration that anything is a gamble in aviation).

Devils advocate: The retirement you would get from a 15 year WestJet career (about 4-5 years of that at Encore), will pan out to more money than a piston pilot would make for 15 years not really moving upwards on the pay scale. In light to not make this post any longer, I'll let you do your math. But I used 1 year as the timeline to upgrade at Encore, followed by 4 years of Captain Pay. Followed by F/O pay at WJ. Add a normal ESP/Profit Share percentage to it. Then compare it to your piston pilot making 90k/yr for 15 years. Clearly your WJ pay cheques will win. You have to look at the Encore-WJ setup for the long term. If both careers were to crash by year 5, you have a piston pilot that has more money in the bank. But you have a Q400 type rating with more career options on the horizon. Which is more lucrative? Having some savings? Or being able to find a good paying job quickly?

Don't forget that there are incentives for F/O's now at WJ if they don't upgrade by year 10. Add that to your 15 year model, it's an even nicer retirement.

The day WJ will only hire of Encore, it will be an other discussion.

Last I heard flow through was up to 50%. This is after 1.5 years of operating. As lucrative as it would be to have 100% flow through, you can't have that until you are a bigger company and can sustain a controlled rate of attrition to meet WestJet's needs. I do believe there's something to be said with regards to Encore being a stepping stone to Air Canada, and from what I know of the management group at WJ, it's my sincere opinion that they will do their absolute best to botch Encore-AC as an incentive with something internally. Higher flow through percentage, increased pay, shorter upgrade times at WestJet, etc. The agreement at WJ was just settled before Christmas, Encore's WAWCON is next from what I hear.

Don't forget that the profit share cheques, and esp does bridge the gap quite a bit. Also if you want min flying, you can have it, but if you're young and want to fly more, you can have that too and make more money than min guarantee.

I'm not sure if this is up-to-date info, but people with Q400 time or something relative find themselves upgrading in the first recurrent sim? So somebody coming in with 705 experience would see a short time at FO salaries before making more money.

I agree that there are higher paying jobs, working for less days, home more, better WAWCON's at places other than Encore (heck I work at one of these places myself), but these jobs also come at the big expense of reduced job security, career incentives, and ultimately less pay/retirement options if compared to an airline career at WJ (and AC for that matter). If I had $1000 for every ex-shell pilot that wishes they accepted their job offer from WJ/AC 10 years ago, I would have a nice down payment for my dream house.

Best of luck with your career rocket81

[CanadianEh]

Any announced upcoming courses for WJ encore?

[leftoftrack]

Do they announce gs's or is it just assumed that while they are taking planes they are running courses at 1 every 4 to 6 weeks

[dirk82]

Can any actual encore folks chime in and say what the right seat pay is? It cant be as low as guys say on this board

[indieadventurer]

No of course it isn't. The pay scale has been posted before, in fact I clicked back one page on this topic and it was there. Is it still garbage? Yes. Is it 32k? Nope, never was. Let's try to get our numbers right. These are the current rates. The annual column is based on 80 credit hours per month which is what's guaranteed until at least end of June this year. Lastly, flow is still at 25% last I heard.

FO Rate Annually
Year 0 $38.97 $37,411
Year 1 $40.65 $39,024
Year 2 $42.42 $40,723
Year 3 $44.25 $42,480
Year 4 $46.17 $44,323

Captain Rate Annually
Year 0 $70.91 $68,074
Year 1 $72.80 $69,888
Year 2 $74.75 $71,760
Year 3 $76.75 $73,680
Year 4 $78.80 $75,648

[fish4life]

BUT after June it goes to $32734 at 70 credits a month

[indieadventurer]

The idea is that come this summer the schedules will be efficient and mature enough to generate 80+- hr monthly blockings. The idea of 70 hrs a month isn't something to worry about, if the schedules aren't there to support 80 by themselves they'll extend it, again.

[loopa]

The idea is that come this summer the schedules will be efficient and mature enough to generate 80+- hr monthly blockings. The idea of 70 hrs a month isn't something to worry about, if the schedules aren't there to support 80 by themselves they'll extend it, again.

You beat me to it. Encore will not risk upsetting their staff by giving them a higher income and then take it away.

There's only one direction at Encore in my opinion and that's up. Remember earlier when I said management at wj is sincere and will do their best to prevent an Encore-AC route? Don't forget the Esp and profit share cheque does make a difference as well.

Are upgrades still 6 months for people who come in as fos and meet the matrix? Or are there enough people now to have people in the right seat for a while even if meeting the matrix?

[dirk82]

How many guys are they running in a GS for mainline? Seems flow thru onto the jets is going to be a long haul. Even at 50% if they run 3 gs a year with 8 per class. Whats a new hires number at encore? Are they over 150 pilots now?

[indieadventurer]

How many guys are they running in a GS for mainline? Seems flow thru onto the jets is going to be a long haul. Even at 50% if they run 3 gs a year with 8 per class. Whats a new hires number at encore? Are they over 150 pilots now?

WJ usually runs a gs of 8. Encore is just shy of 200 pilots now I think. There's a class of 10 almost every or every other month at Encore. With flow at 25% or even 50% and if you're number 200 at Encore you can do that math for your time frame to the jet

[loopa]

flow is still at 25% last I heard.

I was just going based on this post from DaveP in August when I said 50%. Is it still confirmed at 25%?

Hi Guys
The manager of training at Encore is planning on a 50percent flow as well.

[indieadventurer]

Still 25%. Rumors have been going around for months suggesting 50% starting this year but nothing from management on that.

[loopa]

How many guys are they running in a GS for mainline? Seems flow thru onto the jets is going to be a long haul. Even at 50% if they run 3 gs a year with 8 per class. Whats a new hires number at encore? Are they over 150 pilots now?

WJ usually runs a gs of 8. Encore is just shy of 200 pilots now I think. There's a class of 10 almost every or every other month at Encore. With flow at 25% or even 50% and if you're number 200 at Encore you can do that math for your time frame to the jet

I can't see the 25% sustaining for much longer with 200+ crews. My reason being that WJ is all about culture and good core values. I have a hard time seeing them keep 25% flow through and expecting people putting in north of 8 years before seeing the 737. Someone can finish their CPL have 250 hours, and have a narrow body jet job in that time frame. And I re-emphasize, the last thing Encore would want is a Encore-AC route for any body. So I don't see how they will sustain 25% flow for much longer.

So if we consider 50%, at 8/mo in WJ that means they hire 96/yr. 48 of those come from Encore. If you're number 200, that's 4 years at Encore, probably spend at least 3 of that as a Captain.

Still not a bad career move for a 3000 hour pilot, 500/yr x 4 = 5000+ hours by the time you hit WJ. Sounds about the experience levels they hire straight into WJ. Oh, and you're more senior than everyone in the class. Big bonus! So while your class mate who just started WJ will be spending 10 years in the right seat on the 737, you will only spend about 6. Right?

[fish4life]

To think they will be hiring 96/yr for the next 4 years might be ambitious that's 36% of the total pilots on the property of Westjet right now (going off the airline pilot central number). Not saying it's not going to happen but that's quite a bit of expansion/ attrition even with the 767's coming. Something's gotta give between all the hiring planned at WestJet and Air Canada it's going to be a pilots market... IF they both hire that much

[lostaviator]

6 wj courses in 2015
2 or 3 spots filled by encore.
200 pilots give or take
11 years at encore at 25% for pilot 200
Upgrades at wj are what? 8 years?
One list= direct flow to the left seat.