Fees etc.

[Cat Driver]

The discussions ongoing about the medical processing fee is really interesting, especially those who feel these fees are justified.

So how about you willing fees payers list the services TC provides that you are really satisfied with and would be willingly paid outside of government?

[Gravol]

I hate paying fees.

However, I like the idea of an enforcement agency that lays smack downs against morons who deliberately and negligently put themselves and the public at risk. They don't do enough policing. Wish it was more like the Mossad. Imagine the scandal, Johnny Ramp-rat pulling rank shutting down an op? Would actually make for a good tv series.

[YYZSaabGuy]

The discussions ongoing about the medical processing fee is really interesting, especially those who feel these fees are justified.

So how about you willing fees payers list the services TC provides that you are really satisfied with and would be willingly paid outside of government?

Here's a better idea: how about you folks who kvetch endlessly about the medical processing fee come up with a viable alternative to the current "User Pay" scheme?
Without, of course, increasing my already too-high federal, provincial and municipal taxes?
Or sacrificing the current levels of service, regardless of whether they could be improved?

[Rockie]

Here's a better idea: how about you folks who kvetch endlessly about the medical processing fee come up with a viable alternative to the current "User Pay" scheme?

They can't because there is no viable alternative. Unless they can find some way to administer licenses and do all the other work TC is mandated to do at no cost.

[5x5]

Cat, sometimes I can't decide if you are purposely obtuse just to stimulate conversation or you actually have a reading comprehension problem.

Assuming I'm one of the folks you imply feels the fee is justified, I'll try once again to clarify my actual feelings.

It's not about whether the fees are justified or not, it's about whether they should be paid or not. You and I or anyone else on this forum ranting about the unfairness of it doesn't change anything. The reality is that the fees are part of the system and we are all aware that they are. So, by choosing to become a pilot and join the system, I (and by extension) all of us agree to operate within the system. I follow the regulations even though there are many of them I don't particularly agree with. I pay the fees that are part of the system even though there are many of them I don't particularly agree with.

The simple fact I do not agree with something doesn't give me the right to refuse to comply. If I feel very strongly that something is unfair or improper enough, I will take steps to try and change the system using appropriate methods. Or, I can choose not to be part of whatever activity/system it is I have an issue with. That is central to being a part of society.

Withholding a fee simply because I think it is unfair is just like busting a regulation simply because I think it is unfair.

[Cat Driver]

I will take steps to try and change the system using appropriate methods.

Sounds reasonable, maybe you could let us know how you would go about doing that with the present system in power?

Or, I can choose not to be part of whatever activity/system it is I have an issue with.

Exactly, comply or be unable to work in the profession you chose to work in.

That is central to being a part of society.

Yes, however this is not the society I started to work in, back then DOT actually gave you a tangible service and you could actually communicate one on one with them....all paid out of my taxes...no add on fees.

Fortunately I worked outside of this system for decades before I retired mostly flying under FAA part 91, which is eons ahead of the Canadian way of operating.

What you have now is bureaucracy at its best...

Canada has some positive aspects though, if you want to go on welfare no problem the less you can do the easier it is to get approved.

Gotta love socialism.

[Shiny Side Up]

Or sacrificing the current levels of service, regardless of whether they could be improved?

To be honest, the level of service has steadily declined. I sort of doubt that this is because some aren't paying their fees. Since one has been paying fees before with better service, one might consider that witholding fees is a means of protest. Part of the problem is also that we're not getting what we agreed to pay fees for, and given the level of service, we don't even get reasonable notice when its reduced.

One sore point on the whole process. Notably its been taking TC up to their "standard of service" of 90 days to process paper on a regular basis. Bizarrely, you almost immediately get a notice of your fee for your medical sometime weeks - or months, before you even get the paper in hand. On the other side of things TC seems short staffed, why is the fees department the only bit that seems to be staffed up?

On a wider note, aviation fees are always a sore spot since it seem to be the only place where service and payment for service is disconnected. I'm not sure why this is. Why isn't TC licensing operating more like the provincial DMV? When it comes to airport fees I've never run into a more incompetent bunch that seem to get into this position at airports big and small, incompetent or crooked or both, that I'm not sure.

For some reason it never occurs to anyone in any of these positions that you have an easier time collecting fees if you have a good level of service. Rather they approach it in the same vein as "the beatings will continue until morale improves".

Gotta love socialism.

I love socialism. What we got sometimes though ain't socialism. If we were more socialist, we'd get more service for the tax burden. As it is, its more of a kleptocracy.

[Cat Driver]

F I N A L L Y ! ! !

Someone understands the issue.

As it is, its more of a kleptocracy.

Here let me take two words out out of this.

As it is, its a kleptocracy.

There we go....

Now we all can feel more Canadian.

[Gravol]

I will take steps to try and change the system using appropriate methods.

Sounds reasonable, maybe you could let us know how you would go about doing that with the present system in power?

Or, I can choose not to be part of whatever activity/system it is I have an issue with.

Exactly, comply or be unable to work in the profession you chose to work in.

That is central to being a part of society.

Yes, however this is not the society I started to work in, back then DOT actually gave you a tangible service and you could actually communicate one on one with them....all paid out of my taxes...no add on fees.

Fortunately I worked outside of this system for decades before I retired mostly flying under FAA part 91, which is eons ahead of the Canadian way of operating.

What you have now is bureaucracy at its best...

Canada has some positive aspects though, if you want to go on welfare no problem the less you can do the easier it is to get approved.

Gotta love socialism.

The highlighted / bold points are the problem, not the fee.

Yes, and the U.S. has so much going for it these days I can't help but wonder why I retain my Canadian citizenship

You remind me of those hypocritical radical western imams who condemn all aspects of the country they call home but choose to remain well inside it's borders.

Give up, enjoy your weekend.

[Cat Driver]

Give up, enjoy your weekend.

I am enjoying my weekend.

In three more days I will wander into a new location, in Tucson now , may head over to Hemet for a while.

I am able to afford this life style because I chose to work outside of Canada once I was unable to work here, courtesy of Transport Canada.

[Gravol]

Give up, enjoy your weekend.

I am enjoying my weekend.

In three more days I will wander into a new location, in Tucson now , may head over to Hemet for a while.

I am able to afford this life style because I chose to work outside of Canada once I was unable to work here, courtesy of Transport Canada.

There are three sides to every story

[Cat Driver]

There are three sides to every story

Yes there are.

The third side of my story is I won my legal battle with TC and they were found to have been in violation of the very laws they are sworn to uphold.

Did I detect a slight inference you thought I had been to blame for the situation I was in?

[Gravol]

I don't know what situation you were in. On that note, I do not hate all police officers just because I've had a bad experience with a few authoritarian dirty corrupt scum bags who make things up, like your speed. You know, the cases which are tossed out of court because they're so asinine .


Your favorite flying gig was what? Warm change in topic.

[Cat Driver]

I don't know what situation you were in.

Yet you chose to describe me this way.

You remind me of those hypocritical radical western imams who condemn all aspects of the country they call home but choose to remain well inside it's borders.

I was forced to work outside of Canada by several very corrupt TC high level managers, it cost me a company and three and a half years of legal battles to finally win my case.

It went up the ladder of power to the Director General Transport Canada, the Minister of Transport and finally to the head of the Justice Department in Ottawa.

The findings were completely in my favor and TC was found guilty of denying me due process.....which every Canadian citizen is guaranteed.

Maybe you should think before you make derogatory comments about people you know nothing about.

Your favorite flying gig was what? Warm change in topic.

Aerial application, especially flying helicopters in that role.

The worst gig was eight years of airshow flying in Europe.

[Gravol]

From the way you write, it sounds like you have a case of sour grapes because of one experience. My police officer analogy is perfect.

I've read these forums for years.

[Cat Driver]

You are entitled to have any opinion you wish.

As too sour grapes that also is an opinion you are entitled to, however from my own experience in aviation I can look back and feel nothing but success from day one in a career that allowed me to fly in so many different types of flying in so many different aircraft I can hardly believe I did it....

...and to make it even better I made enough to be comfortable for a very long time..

So if that is sour grapes the taste is delicious.

We really have nothing more to discuss ...

Hope your career will be as good as mine was.

[Gravol]

On topic, my police officer analogy again is perfect.

By the sounds of it you want no enforcement in Canada. What a wonderful world that would be.

[justwork]

I'm like the fee nazi. I hate them, and everyone has them. Buy a new phone for $500 and get charged a $25 fee to activate it, why do I have to pay the guy to do his job after shelling out serious cash for a product at the store he works for? Buy new tires for your car and pay a fee for the old ones to be recycled, I don't have to pay a restaurant to throw out the food I didn't eat. Buy a $1800 plane ticket and pay the airport a $25 improvement fee, why doesn't the airport charge it's tenants more - I don't pay improvement fees at the mall. Want electricity in Ontario, well there is a delivery fee for that too. Call out charge for fuel, am I not a customer? Pay $150 to have a doctor give me a 5 minute once over, then pay TC $50 to put the paper in my file. Enough.

We pay taxes out the ass, federal tax, provincial tax, municipal tax, tax on every cent we spend in Canada (gst/pst/hst whatever) and tax on every cent we earn in Canada. We even pay tax on something that already has had the taxes paid, like a used car. Guy buys a car from the dealership and pays $X in tax to the government, I buy that car off him 2 years later and I'm paying tax again on that car! If you haven't realized that you're getting totally bent over by everyone yet, you will. One day, like me, your brain will click and you will say "what the eff". Enough is enough. My moment was with the cell company Fido. I bought a phone without a contract, paid top nut too. $25 to "activate" it. He is doing his job, activating my phone is his job, his employer is making money off my monthly phone bill as well as the product I just purchased, now they want me to pay their employees to do their job? What the... Why are we putting up with this? Because it's become normal. It's become normal and it shouldn't be. I didn't buy that phone, that fee cost fido a customer as I switched companies after 14 years of service. I don't stand for fees, cable company tried to charge me to come and replace their broken equipment, I told them their broken garbage will be on my step and that I'll switch companies... Fee was waved. Canadians are paying more money now in taxes, fees, additional charges, and surcharges to the government alone then ever before, but you are getting LESS back. Everyone has their hand in your pocket, how much is left for you? In most cases it's either not enough or just enough. More Canadians then ever are living pay cheque to pay cheque, taxes, fees, surcharges, delivery fees, they add up quick. I used to pay my bank fees to keep my money, they make money off my money then charge me more. That stopped because I told them no more. Cable company, phone company, I don't pay them fees. TC, no I won't pay those, and if they go to collection I'll take satisfaction knowing they paid the collection agency a fee. Grow a back bone and say enough already, get you greasy hands out of my wallet.

End of rant.

[bigsky]

^ ^ ^ Well said ^ ^ ^ I like the way you think.

[glorifieddriver]

I'm like the fee nazi. I hate them, and everyone has them. Buy a new phone for $500 and get charged a $25 fee to activate it, why do I have to pay the guy to do his job after shelling out serious cash for a product at the store he works for? Buy new tires for your car and pay a fee for the old ones to be recycled, I don't have to pay a restaurant to throw out the food I didn't eat. Buy a $1800 plane ticket and pay the airport a $25 improvement fee, why doesn't the airport charge it's tenants more - I don't pay improvement fees at the mall. Want electricity in Ontario, well there is a delivery fee for that too. Call out charge for fuel, am I not a customer? Pay $150 to have a doctor give me a 5 minute once over, then pay TC $50 to put the paper in my file. Enough.

We pay taxes out the ass, federal tax, provincial tax, municipal tax, tax on every cent we spend in Canada (gst/pst/hst whatever) and tax on every cent we earn in Canada. We even pay tax on something that already has had the taxes paid, like a used car. Guy buys a car from the dealership and pays $X in tax to the government, I buy that car off him 2 years later and I'm paying tax again on that car! If you haven't realized that you're getting totally bent over by everyone yet, you will. One day, like me, your brain will click and you will say "what the eff". Enough is enough. My moment was with the cell company Fido. I bought a phone without a contract, paid top nut too. $25 to "activate" it. He is doing his job, activating my phone is his job, his employer is making money off my monthly phone bill as well as the product I just purchased, now they want me to pay their employees to do their job? What the... Why are we putting up with this? Because it's become normal. It's become normal and it shouldn't be. I didn't buy that phone, that fee cost fido a customer as I switched companies after 14 years of service. I don't stand for fees, cable company tried to charge me to come and replace their broken equipment, I told them their broken garbage will be on my step and that I'll switch companies... Fee was waved. Canadians are paying more money now in taxes, fees, additional charges, and surcharges to the government alone then ever before, but you are getting LESS back. Everyone has their hand in your pocket, how much is left for you? In most cases it's either not enough or just enough. More Canadians then ever are living pay cheque to pay cheque, taxes, fees, surcharges, delivery fees, they add up quick. I used to pay my bank fees to keep my money, they make money off my money then charge me more. That stopped because I told them no more. Cable company, phone company, I don't pay them fees. TC, no I won't pay those, and if they go to collection I'll take satisfaction knowing they paid the collection agency a fee. Grow a back bone and say enough already, get you greasy hands out of my wallet.

End of rant.

Time to revolt! On a more serious note though, if you consider the fact that when you roll over $50,000.00 income and with every $10,000.00 on top of that your ability to improve life really does not improve! Making let's say $80,000.00 you should be able to afford a nice phone, car, a vacation every now and then....but in reality the taxation and fee structure imposed on us, really quickly brings your $80,000.00 to a fraction of that amount. If you really add up all the money you work for that is just being taken away from you, you will loose any kind of motivation. All of us professionals in the $50,000ish to $150,000ish mark are being taken for a ride the most. We have no way to write off expenses (expensive car, hotels, restaurants, etc) that a simple business owner (even scammer) can do with the same income. He will clear over 80% and we will under 50%!!! What sense is there to go to school, study, become a person of a trait...when you just simply get treated for a retard and stolen of your pay cheque! Just open a business, any business that you can really make a go of that can get you $100k in the door. You will clear more money than most of us at well beyond a $150K mark!

So yeah, the extra $50 a year, as little as they may sound add up, to the other $50 $25 $100 fees and then taxes and there you have it, what are you really working for?

[white_knuckle_flyer]

I think it is rather obvious that fees of all kinds are on the rise because government services in general have wildly underestimated how much it costs and will cost to maintain programs and services. It is a constant balancing act between reducing service and/or asking for more money for that service.

My problem is, if my refusal to pay fees does nothing more than raise governmental debt, then I am ultimately just screwing over my kids a little bit more. The hope, of course, is that social disobedience leads to a more efficient government, but that would require a disciplined rebellion, not just a random scattering of fed-up taxpayers. I will continue paying fees until I feel that my resistance is meaningful ~ dunno if that will ever happen. With so many people on the planet now, and most of us beaten into antipathy, it is getting harder and harder to coordinate any kind of offensive.

[Cat Driver]

There is always the underground economy method of keeping more of your money.

[Cat Driver]

Here is another idea.

Cut TC back to just enforcement that actually enforces.

You would end up with about 95% less drones in government to pay.

Then regulate the industry by enforcing the laws already on the books.

That puts the onus on pilots to know the rules and abide by them, you must know how to read and write to be a commercial pilot so there is no excuse for not knowing the rules.

[North Shore]

Pretty simplistic. What happens if those laws have to be changed? Who is going to issue licences? What if medical standards change? And so on...

[photofly]

if you consider the fact that when you roll over $50,000.00 income and with every $10,000.00 on top of that your ability to improve life really does not improve!

Then pass it on to me. I can improve my quality of life considerably with every extra $10k, so if you can't, consider handing it over.