Pay your medical fees

[Rockie]

(btw, things "affect" you , not "effect" you. No charge! )

Thank you. Verb versus noun - good for you.

For someone who doesn't like my sermons you pay very close attention.

[davecessna]

Grammar Nazism aside, if you think 55$/year is a ripoff, try this. A massive chunk of #*#&$(*& gross salary to one of the most inept, corrupt, bullshit organizations this side of North Korea.

[complexintentions]

So #*#&$(*& leave already. There are places that don't have income tax, you know.

For someone who doesn't like my sermons you pay very close attention.

Paying close attention to details is sort of what I get paid for. It never switches off.

Try and get it right next time!

[complexintentions]

Nearly forgot this:

Godwin's Law

Keep up the good work, Dave!

[Rockie]

Disclaimer: My use of the word "your" in this thread is the plural form referring to people in general, and applies only to people whose panties are sufficiently twisted that they refuse to pay for the periodic license validation that permits them to continue earning a living. It does not apply to people with stouter panties or to people for whom the fee does not apply for various reasons whether declared or undeclared. Any perceived or real inaccurate targeting of groups or individuals is unintentional.

[white_knuckle_flyer]

Try and get it right next time!

Isn't it "Try TO get it right next time" ?

[Rockie]

Try and get it right next time!

Isn't it "Try TO get it right next time" ?

Why yes...I believe it is, although to be honest I had to check. Well played serving of humble pie.

[CD]

There have been quite a few threads on this topic over the years... I think the longest was the following:

AvCanada: TC sends Collection Agency after me

Somewhere in that thread, I also posted some of the history and that we did have the opportunity to debate and provide information regarding the fees if you were either a member of, or represented by a group that was part of the Regulatory Services Fees Technical Committee back in the 1990's:

The members of the Regulatory Services Fees Technical Committee of CARAC include Aero Club of Canada, Aerospace Industries Association of Canada, Air Canada, Aircraft Maintenance Engineers Association (Atlantic) Inc., Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association - Canada, Air Transport Association of Canada, Association québécoise des transporteurs aériens inc., Aviation Québec, British Columbia Aviation Council, Calgary Flying Club, Canada 3000 Airlines - Pilots Association, Canadian Airlines International, Canadian Air Line Pilots Association, Canadian Association of Aviation Colleges, Canadian Business Aircraft Association, Canadian Helicopters Ltd., Canadian Owners and Pilots Association, Canadian Transportation Agency, Central AME Association, Diamond Aircraft Industries, Experimental Aircraft Association - Canadian Council, Fantasy Sky Promotions, Helicopter Association of Canada, Home Aviation, International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, International Council of Air Shows, Light Aircraft Manufacturers Association of Canada, Northern Air Transport Association, Phoenix Aviation Resources, Pratt and Whitney Canada Inc., Shuswap Air, Soaring Association of Canada, Ultralight Pilots Association of Canada, and Union of Canadian Transport Employees.

As a member of the general public, we also usually have the opportunity to provide comment on any regulation proposed by the Federal Government when it is published in the Canada Gazette. In the case of the fees charged, they have existed for years so I'm not sure when they were first introduced. The earliest publication that I have found online is old Air Regulation 820, which references a Schedule 1 where the fees at the time were:

Issue of a licence validation certificate for

(a) a commercial pilot or airline transport pilot
(i) for a six-month period - $45
(ii) for a one-year period - $70

(b) a private pilot, balloon pilot or glider pilot
(i) for a one-year period - $50
(ii) for a two-year period - $85
(iii) for a five-year period - $185

Old Air Regulations - Part VIII

When the fees were revised in 1997, we all missed the boat as the regulatory change document records the following information:

Consultation

Part I, Subpart 4 (Charges) was prepublished in Canada Gazette, Part I on 2 August 1997. Fewer than twenty comments were received many of which have been taken into account in the revisions to this regulation and its accompanying fee schedule...

RIAS Archive Files - Subpart 104 96-433 October 2, 1996
RIAS Archive Files - Subpart 104 97-542 December 24, 1997

When the fees were revised again in 2000, the public comment period was omitted as the regulatory change appears to have been published directly in the Canada Gazette, Part II:

Currently, Schedule IV to Subpart 4, item 20, lists a separate fee for the processing of a medical certificate for each combination of type of pilot licence or permit and for each validity period. The validity period is the maximum amount of time that a pilot may fly before he/she must again satisfy the Department of Transport that he/she continues to satisfy the medical criteria for the applicable licence or permit. These validity periods vary according to the type of licence or permit held and the age of the applicant. For example, the validity period for a commercial or airline transport pilot under 40 years old is 12 months while that for a commercial or airline transport pilot 40 or over is 6 months. On the other hand, the validity period for a recreational pilot permit may be either 2 years (for a pilot aged 40 or older) or 5 years (for a pilot younger than 40). In total, there are 14 separate combinations of pilot documents and validity periods for which a fee is charged for the processing of a medical certificate. The fees range from a low of $55, generally for a 6 month or a 12 month validity period, to $185, for a 5-year validity period. These fees were intended to recover not only the costs of processing medical certificates but also the costs of other services provided to pilots without charge, such as safety publications.

Over the coming year, Transport Canada intends to make many of its publications available on the Internet free of charge. Included in this plan are many of the safety publications provided to pilots. The costs of producing and mailing safety publications to pilots will significantly diminish. Consequently, the justification for higher fees based on the length of the medical certificate validity period diminishes as well.

This amendment will replace the 14 separate combinations of pilot documents and validity periods and the 4 alternative fees with a single fee for the processing of pilot medical certificates, regardless of the type of licence or permit held or of the length of the validity period. The new fee will be the lowest of the current 4 alternative possibilities, i.e., $55 for the processing of a medical certificate. Those pilots currently paying $55 for the processing of their medical certificates will continue to pay $55. Those pilots who currently pay more than $55 will realize a reduction of between $15 and $130 in the fees they pay under this proposal.

Consultation

The proposal to simplify the fees listed under CAR 104.01, Schedule IV, item 20 to a single fee of $55 was discussed at the Personnel Licensing and Training Technical Committee of the Canadian Aviation Regulation Advisory Council (CARAC) on March 28, 2000. Also discussed at that Technical Committee meeting was the proposal to fast-track this amendment by proceeding directly to final approval and publication in Part II of the Canada Gazette. The fast-tracking of this amendment is considered necessary to ensure equitable treatment of all pilots. New validity periods will be coming into force shortly and some of these do not have an existing fee for processing the medical certificate. Without the simplified fee structure, or some other similar regulatory amendment which would include these new validity periods, pilots subject to these new validity periods would not be subject to any medical certificate fee. This would result in some pilots being subject to fees for processing of their medical certificates and others not. Proceeding with the simplified, consolidated fee structure as soon as possible will avoid this inequitable situation.

At the Technical Committee meeting, Transport Canada committed to developing a brochure to explain the new simplified fee structure for distribution to aviation personnel. As well, notice of the proposed change will be placed in the July 13, 2000 Aeronautical Information Publication (AIP) to be sent to all pilots.

Industry representatives present during the Technical Committee meeting included participants from the Canadian Owners and Pilots Association (COPA), from the Airline Pilots Association (ALPA) and from the Air Transport Association of Canada (ATAC). The members of the Technical Committee indicated their support for the proposal to fast-track the publication of amendment to CAR 104.01, Schedule IV, item 20 which will address the simplified fee structure. These members have also agreed to participate in communicating the details of the fee simplification and to prepare information articles for publication in trade magazines and newsletters.

RIAS Archive Files - Canada Gazette, Part II (Subpart 104 - July 5, 2000)

[complexintentions]

Try and get it right next time!

Isn't it "Try TO get it right next time" ?

Nope. Either is listed as acceptable, "TO" is the more accusatory expression, "AND" is in common usage. Kinda like "I could care less what people write on AvCanada" and "I COULDN'T care less what people write on AvCanada" are both considered to mean the same thing. "Effect" and "Affect"...not so much. English is a bitch, eh?!

Start a pedantic war, and you get one...

Originally all I really wanted to know was if a Canadian medical was valid for a year past 40. Got sidetracked by a bit of pompous nonsense, now I've pretty much lost my periodic yearning to return anyway. Well, that and an 80 cent (and declining) Canadian dollar...

So, mission accomplished!

[Illya Kuryakin]

Seriously? Three pages of this shit? Really? Nothing on TV?
Illya

[white_knuckle_flyer]

Start a pedantic war, and you get one...

Are you sure you don't mean "semantic war" ?

[Rockie]

Start a pedantic war, and you get one...

A "pedant" is defined in the Webster dictionary as "a person who annoys other people by correcting small errors and giving too much attention to minor details"

Since this little diversion was started with the quote below it appears you're great with detail but may miss some of the bigger picture.

(btw, things "affect" you , not "effect" you. No charge! )

[complexintentions]

Nope, definitely meant pedantic! You guys would make good EK training pilots. Or Australians.

A "pedant" is defined in the Webster dictionary as "a person who annoys other people by correcting small errors and giving too much attention to minor details"

If the shoe fits, eh, white_knuckle_flyer?

Big picture is, the thread is about medical fees. I simply wanted to know if I would pay once or twice a year if I relocated back to the economic basket case of Canada. Rockie couldn't resist chirping about "endangered livelihoods" or some such shit. Got called on it. Still kept digging. And here we are.

Enjoy your fees, hope it all works out for ya!

[white_knuckle_flyer]

I still want to know why my first couple of years were free of medical fees but this year I got my first $55 request. Are the fees new or are they just finally being passed onto pilots ?

Also, what's an EK training pilot, and why is it bad to be Australian ?

[Illya Kuryakin]

Just got my brand new medical sticker in the mail yesterday. Had the medical this month. Got the signature from the MD and now the sticker (don't recall getting stickers before? Annual thing?). They don't seem to be chasing their money (I'm a long time past due) very aggressively? I shall pay this 55$ when I get the bill. As for the past due? I shall let sleeping dogs lie.
Illya

[Taiser]

Just got my brand new medical sticker in the mail yesterday. Had the medical this month. Got the signature from the MD and now the sticker (don't recall getting stickers before? Annual thing?). They don't seem to be chasing their money (I'm a long time past due) very aggressively? I shall pay this 55$ when I get the bill. As for the past due? I shall let sleeping dogs lie.
Illya

WTF?

I just got my new book recently but had the old medical date in it, due a TC screw up... Asked TC for an updated sticker and they told me they didn't provide those anymore as the CAME stamp is the validation! They advised me that they don't provide stickers anymore and wanted me to carry my NEW and OLD license at the same time if my CAME was not willing to stamp my new book with the old date!!!! Again WTF??? I swear TC doesn't have a clue which hand is wiping it's ass with! What a bunch of $%^&* clowns!!!!

[Rockie]

WTF? I just got my new book recently but had the old medical date in it, due a TC screw up... Asked TC for an updated sticker and they told me they didn't provide those anymore as the CAME stamp is the validation! They advised me that they don't provide stickers anymore and wanted me to carry my NEW and OLD license at the same time if my CAME was not willing to stamp my new book with the old date!!!! Again WTF??? I swear TC doesn't have a clue which hand is wiping it's ass with! What a bunch of $%^&* clowns!!!!

It's a well known problem and has to do with timing. But really, is it that much of a burden to carry two licenses until your next medical?

Rockie couldn't resist chirping about "endangered livelihoods" or some such shit.

Like you said, great at details but proving again not so great on big pictures. Many professionals, tradesman, equipment operators, vessel operators, businesses - and pilots - to name just a few rely on some kind of recurring government license or accreditation to carry out their business. While complaining about them is probably universal, no one but a few pilots it seems are foolish enough to not pay them and risk losing that license. Hence the "endangered livelihood" shit. Now I realize this doesn't apply to you working overseas and having your fees paid for you, but it is still the subject of this thread. Maybe your problem isn't big pictures per se, maybe it's just seeing any picture that doesn't (a)ffect you directly.

[Cap'n Tripps]

I'd still like to know how we're supposed to get this and other (presumably important and pertinent) ACs and other info without getting regular mailed updates from TC.

Regardless of whether or not you feel the fee is justified (I personally don't), TC should have the means to disseminate information by mail, email or otherwise.

If it weren't for AvCanada, I never would have known about this. What else have I missed? How much time per day, week or month should I spend trolling the TC website for stuff like this?

Is AvCanada now a mouthpiece for TC?

[Rockie]

I'd still like to know how we're supposed to get this and other (presumably important and pertinent) ACs and other info without getting regular mailed updates from TC.

You can sign up for TC's e-notification for just about any notices or publications they have. They'll send you an email every time something comes out that you've signed up for and all you do is select the link to read it or download. It's a very handy thing that I use all the time. Take a look and try it out.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/o ... u-1152.htm

Or you could periodically take a look yourself on their site at the address below. On that page they also have a link to sign up for e-bulletins.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/o ... nu-455.htm

[davecessna]

If this discussion goes on any longer we're going to have to write several urologies.

[CD]

Are the fees new or are they just finally being passed onto pilots ?

If you review post 57 above, you will see that Air Regulation 820 contained the fee structure. So, we have been paying a fee since at least 1994. I haven't found an earlier version of the old ANOs/Air Regs with the previous fee structure. The Canada Gazette contains the following information related to the fees published in 1994 (includes all fees, not just those for medical validations):

SOR/94-337 - 5 May, 1994 - Air Regulations, amendment

Description

This amendment increases existing fees for aviation regulatory services provided by the Department by the rate of inflation since the last increase. The amendment increases most fees by 318% as virtually none of the regulatory fees has been increased since 1968.
These changes are effective June 1, 1994.

Benefits and Costs

The current level of cost recovery of aviation regulatory services is approximately 1%.

This amendment will increase revenues generated by user charges for aviation regulatory services by an estimated $2.3 million.

The fees for regulatory services are a small fraction of the costs of owning or operating aircraft, operating an air carrier serivces, or manufacturing aircraft or components. For example, the $42 one time charge to obtain a private pilot's licence can be compared to the cost of flight training which is normally in the order of $4,000. Similarly, the $84 fee for a certificate of airworthiness can be compared to the cost of purchasing an aircraft which is normally $10,000 and up for an ultra-light
and from $20,000 to several millions of dollars for more common types of aircraft.

Consultation

The amendment was prepublished in the Canada Gazette Part I on February 26, 1994. Interested parties were requested to make written representations within 30 days of prepublication.

The Department advised aviation associations whose members may be affected by this proposal by letter, outlining the details and requesting comments. The list of groups contacted is available on request. Associations wishing to discuss the amendment were invited to meet with Departmental officials. A meeting was held on March 2, 1994.

Comments received included concerns that the proposed increases were too high, that they would adversely impact the ability of Canadian Aerospace industries to compete internationally and that the current fee structure contains certain anomalies that should be resolved. After careful consideration, it was decided to proceed with the proposed inflation adjustment in the fees to reduce the burden on the general taxpayer.

[YYZSaabGuy]

If this discussion goes on any longer we're going to have to write several urologies.

Agreed. I think we can safely agree, after three pages of this malarkey, that the AvCanada chattering classes have officially run out of things to bitch about.

[Taiser]

It's a well known problem and has to do with timing. But really, is it that much of a burden to carry two licenses until your next medical?

You're kidding right? No, not a problem, just a PITA, which I don't need! And when I fly down to Duluth and stop at customs, along with all the other hoops I have to jump through I have to explain this? Next time you are pulled over in your car, try showing two drivers licenses to the cop with different dates on them.

You think he'll say "Fine" and be on your merry way, or will you be sitting in your car while he makes 1 hour worth of radio calls to his dispatcher? Can you imagine trying to explain this to the customs dudes in the USA? Every-time??? All because TC are a bunch of retards??? No thanks...

If it's a "timing" issue then they know about it, so why don't they FIX IT???? How some people accept incompetence blows me away...

[Rockie]

You're kidding right? No, not a problem, just a PITA, which I don't need!

It's a PITA to leave your old license sitting in your bag beside your new one for 11 months? I did it and it didn't hurt a bit.

[complexintentions]

You're kidding right? No, not a problem, just a PITA, which I don't need! And when I fly down to Duluth and stop at customs, along with all the other hoops I have to jump through I have to explain this? Next time you are pulled over in your car, try showing two drivers licenses to the cop with different dates on them.

You think he'll say "Fine" and be on your merry way, or will you be sitting in your car while he makes 1 hour worth of radio calls to his dispatcher? Can you imagine trying to explain this to the customs dudes in the USA? Every-time??? All because TC are a bunch of retards??? No thanks...

I carry two passports, one expired with my UAE resident visa in it, the other passport current. I've crossed Customs all over the world multiple times every month for years and it's a non-issue. I don't even adjust the W&B for the second doc! I got one of those pimped-out passport holders with both passports, both licenses, (domestic and foreign), the shebang. It ain't no thing.

Since when does Customs check the validity date of your aviation medical, anyway? lol For that matter, when do they even look at your pilot's license? It's not remotely their mandate.

Back to medical fees - is it one medical after 40 or not? For all the preaching, editorializing, and grammar lessons, this sure is a useless thread for actually learning one specific thing about fees.

Just to be clear Rockie, this is a specific question from me, to you, for me, not for anyone else, and not general. If you could resist the urge to jump on a soapbox and restrict your answer to

A. once a year or
B. twice a year

that would be most appreciated! Seeing as that was all I ever asked and wanted to know. Stick THAT up your "big picture" fixation...