Situation for Jazz New Hires

[CBcloud9]

So with the new agreement now in full effect, the question the next generation is asking is what this new contract really means for all the replacement pilots being brought in this Winter/Spring.

I don't work for the company, but like many (according to the hiring blitz happening) I have the opportunity to do so. So after hours of reading forums this is the information I have managed to put together. I am hoping those who know better will help correct me, elaborate, and provide further information for those of us who are considering the move to Jazz.

Pay: Based on min 80/hr/month minimum. (Plus approx $10 000 - $12 000 per year of per diems)
FO
1 yr: 34.5k
2 yr: 37k
3 yr: 38k
4 yr: 59k
5 yr: 61k
6 yr: 64k
7 yr: 66k
8 yr: 68k
9 yr: 70k
10 yr: 71k

Captain
1 yr: 81k
etc etc

Work benefits, Flight benefits, and duty days/work conditions will essentially remain the same - fairly good and industry standard. A new form of profit sharing is being introduced along with the pension / or is it being replaced? - correct me if I'm wrong here please.

I understand a lot of this is speculation, but I hope there are some "in the know" that can offer better estimates than us outsiders. The question's a new hire is asking is:

1. With the new flowthrough, what is the upgrade time from FO-Captain at Jazz looking like?
2. How long until the current PML is estimated to be exhausted?
3. Are the newly hired pilots expected to be on the Dash 8-100 and 300? Are Q400 and RJ positions still available for new hires? Is the above pay going to be the same regardless of aircraft?
4. What bases will be needing the greatest supply of new pilots?
5. How does base transfers and equipment transfers work for a Jazz Pilot?


Those were my top 5 Q's, more to come but I don't want to overwhelm anyone kind enough to take the time to give an ("informed") answer. I know there are plenty more like me interested to know what this new agreement will mean.

Cheers, and may the Aviation Gods have mercy on all us selfish bastards ... Except the CEO's.. Or the system.. Or whoever

[Krimson]

The Jazz guys will be pretty excited to pitch you the job, after all, they cannot flow through if there is no one to fill their shoes for less pay!

If the job is as great as any one of them says, and that you should be all over it, then you should ask why they are leaving for AC. It is a dead end job, someone is going to be SOL when the CEOs have had enough play time.

[av8ts]

The Jazz guys will be pretty excited to pitch you the job, after all, they cannot flow through if there is no one to fill their shoes for less pay!

If the job is as great as any one of them says, and that you should be all over it, then you should ask why they are leaving for AC. It is a dead end job, someone is going to be SOL when the CEOs have had enough play time.

It says a lot about a person when they spend their time putting other people down instead of using that time to help others or improve themselves.

[av8ts]

I'll try to answer but lots of unknowns at Jazz right now. Still confusion on exactly how this PMA is going to work although Jazz pilots are getting calls now for March gs.
1. lots of speculation but definitely an unknown. Depends if AC actually reduces the aircraft #s to the CPA minimums and how many present Capts. actually leave for AC
2. Another unknown. Jazz pilot have not been told how many names are on the present list.
3. Another unknown although the D8 classic and RJ #s are being reduced and Q #s increased so good chance their will be Q400 positions
4. Unknown. ( not YVR)
5. Twice a year their are equipment bids. Open positions are posted and pilots are awarded new positions and bases according to seniority. Once on a type you are froze for 4 years. All Dashes are considered same type.

Lots of unknowns that will likely be revealed in 2015

[Mach7]

Well, I'm a Jazz guy and allow me to correct you on some of your statements. First off, every Pilot has a unique situation, whether they decide to apply to GGN, SKY, Encore, or Jazz, there actions may be based on a number of factors....not always monetary.

The Jazz guys will be pretty excited to pitch you the job, after all, they cannot flow through if there is no one to fill their shoes for less pay!

I'm not not "excited" about pitching anyone the job. And yes, Pilots on the PML can flow through to Air Canada regardless of BOTL hiring.

Jazz is a great company to work for, it has it's moments like anything else, but for the most part it is a pretty sweet gig.

It may also surprise you to know that most with 15 plus years of service have no desire to go to the 'other' side, so your question of why is everyone leaving to AC is a mute point.

Do I consider Jazz a dead end job? If you would have asked me that before the new agreement I would have said a resounding YES. Post ratification has allowed the company to re kindle there relationship with Air Canada with a renewed CPA, pushing forward a solid fleet renewal plan and cost restructuring for the future.

Any new hire that joins Jazz has options. Although they will not be included in the original mobility contract, there is still a flow through to AC, so the option is there if they want to exercise it. I will admit There is an amount of pain with regards to starting salary, but after 3 years the increments increase dramatically.

Now to offer some insight for "CBcloud9";

1. With the new flowthrough, what is the upgrade time from FO-Captain at Jazz looking like?

This is a difficult question to answer, and it can go either way. With the introduction of new equipment there will be the parking of old equipment. It is also undetermined how many Pilots will actually go to Air Canada, (or go to Air Canada, turn the job offer down and take the incentive payment to leave both properties). I think a lot of the junior Pilots (less than 7 years) will leave regardless, and the top group of 20 plus years will be a crap shoot. Some will go, many will stay. The Pilots in the middle is anybodys guess, but for the most part AC will get at least 500 warm bodies to fill there seats. Also there is the 86 Aircraft minimum by 2025. We have been told that this is a "minimum" number, and I feel strongly we will have a lot more tail numbers leading up to this date. Unfortunately I have not answered your question, but hope I provided some insight to help you with your choice.

2. How long until the current PML is estimated to be exhausted?

I can only speak of the existing PML, but we have been told that if there are 1000 Pilots from Jazz on the list, then they will look at every single one before hiring from the outside, (I am just not sure how many Pilots are on the list). As to how fast AC will be hiring?...I heard a number of 100 per year.

3. Are the newly hired pilots expected to be on the Dash 8-100 and 300? Are Q400 and RJ positions still available for new hires? Is the above pay going to be the same regardless of aircraft?

I think any new hire is on the "new" pay scale regardless of equipment type. Your equipment type would be based on the crew requirements at the time.

4. What bases will be needing the greatest supply of new pilots?

I don't think the company even knows the answer to this as of yet.

5. How does base transfers and equipment transfers work for a Jazz Pilot?

I have known some Pilots to transfer bases with other Pilots on the same equipment under a mutual agreement, but never equipment transfers, this would have to go to an open equipment bid.

Hope some of this helps!

[Krimson]

The Jazz guys will be pretty excited to pitch you the job, after all, they cannot flow through if there is no one to fill their shoes for less pay!

If the job is as great as any one of them says, and that you should be all over it, then you should ask why they are leaving for AC. It is a dead end job, someone is going to be SOL when the CEOs have had enough play time.

It says a lot about a person when they spend their time putting other people down instead of using that time to help others or improve themselves.

I wish it wasn't the case, but have a look through the other threads. It would be great if some Jazz pilots could provide some real information to potential new hires without bias. Some might be excited about this flow through, and some will just ride it out until retirement, but for new hires I think it is a different story.

[Lemon]

So with the new agreement now in full effect, the question the next generation is asking is what this new contract really means for all the replacement pilots being brought in this Winter/Spring.

I don't work for the company, but like many (according to the hiring blitz happening) I have the opportunity to do so. So after hours of reading forums this is the information I have managed to put together. I am hoping those who know better will help correct me, elaborate, and provide further information for those of us who are considering the move to Jazz.

Pay: Based on min 80/hr/month minimum. (Plus approx $10 000 - $12 000 per year of per diems)
FO
1 yr: 34.5k
2 yr: 37k
3 yr: 38k
4 yr: 59k
5 yr: 61k
6 yr: 64k
7 yr: 66k
8 yr: 68k
9 yr: 70k
10 yr: 71k

Captain
1 yr: 81k
etc

Can anyone confirm this pay scale is correct? Not sure where the year 4 and up payscale is coming from. I was under the impression that they just added 3 years to the beginning of the scale and the new hire year 4 pay would be the same as the previous year 1 pay, which is around 45k / year not 59k.

[Black Cat]

Re "jazz pilots excited to leave"

The air Canada CPA extension to 2025 had 4 stipulations. One of which is that at least 625 pilots put there name on the list to leave. Not enough names, no deal with AC. Back to the drawing board and the 2020 deadline scenario plays on. So, we have the 625 plus a few spares. Do they all want to go ? NO. Were there a few wringers thrown in to pass the contract and gain employment security for 10 years, likely.

[flyloose]

Edited
I stand corrected. An interesting aspect I wasn't aware of.
There is a provision in the TA that for an amount LESS than 625 a corresponding 0.8 less than the 495 slots would be available. Clear as mud?
eg: only 620 sign onto list, 5 X 0.8 =4 so 491 slots guaranteed. Moot point as i understand it was fully subscribed anyway.

[Black Cat]

...at air Canada's discretion. Say if there were 350 names, no CPA extension Numerous statement in roadshows to back up my previous post.

[teacher]

The simplest explanation was that we were told, "great if you stay" but also "put your name on the list and leave or else." There were many reluctant names on the PML.

[Mach7]

Teacher,

With all due respect , there was no pressure from the company or the MEC to place your name on the list. The only pressure was generated within the Pilot group to move this thing forward.

Many of us did sign up to the PML in an effort to help the numbers, with no intention on going to AC. However I can tell you from fact that a lot of our Pilots contacted the MEC directly and were told, and I quote; "don't put your name on the list to increase the PML, just do what you want to do and let the company worry about the numbers as this is there deal"

[teacher]

Well regardless of what was said I got the impression that they simply wanted us all gone. The more gone the better. But that was my impression and having spoken to a lot of people it seems like that's what many got out of the road shows when discussing the PML. Either way I did the math and long term it SHOULD be a win for me even at my age. Don't get me wrong, Jazz despite the entry level wage is still a great place to work and I really like it here.

[CBcloud9]

Thanks for the responses. At least one bright-side to all this - the 703/704 operators might stay a bit safer as they're able to hold on to some of their more experienced guys who aren't willing to take the hit. Last thing we need is more 1200 hour Captains flying under-maintained IFR aircraft with only an ADF and an MEL'd Garmin 155.

[/quote] Can anyone confirm this pay scale is correct? Not sure where the year 4 and up payscale is coming from. I was under the impression that they just added 3 years to the beginning of the scale and the new hire year 4 pay would be the same as the previous year 1 pay, which is around 45k / year not 59k.[/quote]

Anyone shed some light on this?

[av8ts]

New hire FO pay scale from the MOU

Year 1---36.00
2---37.00
3---38.00
4---40.00
5---47.00
6---53.23
7---58.95 dash8-100/300 cap
8---63.31

The scale goes to 15 years but I couldn't get paste to work. Add 2% to the scale every year plus at least 10000$ in tax free meal expense

[av8ts]

Those are hourly rates and usually at least 80 hours per month plus overtime if you want

[TrailerParkBoy]

Those are hourly rates and usually at least 80 hours per month plus overtime if you want

Who has enough days off yo do over time?

[av8ts]

With a flying block I generally work 16 days a month. I don't work any of my days off but lots of pilots do.

[rudder]

Lots of Jazz pilots adding 20% to their T4 under the old contract. Under the new contract it will be closer to 25-30%. Jazz still has soft time credits so it is unusual to start a month with over 70 hours hard time.

[FlyingMonkey]

Hey boys and girls. I'm wondering if there is anyone in Jazz's GS that has less than 1500 hrs?

Thanks

FM

[Texan1256]

Where do they run the ground school courses, at each respective base or in YYZ?

[Radiocaster]

All training in YYZ. Some classic course in YVR. I would also like to know what is the experience of the new hire pool.

[Apollo]

For the upcoming groundschool, are there any rumours of the allotments?

[prestonlad]

I am In the feb 23 ground school and have 3000 hrs , lots of pic and turbine. I am also very happy to be there !

[BingBong]

For the upcoming groundschool, are there any rumours of the allotments?

I posted this in another thread. As far as a pet groundschool basis is imagine the YYC Q spots will be the first to be filled. With new planes coming and the fact that us YYZ crews are always out there I'd hazard that guess. But like I also said with the PML guys leaving the openings throught the entire system will be fast and furious for the foreseeable future.

Bid Award is out. Here are the following vacancies however I do believe that as guys leave for AC these vacancies will change drastically:

YYZ DH8 3
YYZ DH4 1
YYZ CRJ 1

YUL DH8 1

YYC DH8 3
YYC DH4 9

Good luck to all those who apply and can't wait to see you on your ALPA dinner day!