Subtracting Instructor Time

Luscombe · Post by **Luscombe** » Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:09 am

I was wondering if anyone out there has experienced "Flight Instructor Discrimination" in the form of not recognizing your instructor time.

Although I have experienced some negative feedback from prospective employers (703-704-705 operators) back when I was instructing, they still considered instructing hours as hours. I have heard rumours of an airline taking your total time (A), and your instructing time (B) to come up with your "real" hours with the following formula:

A - B = REAL HOURS

As a former flight instructor, I found this to be extremely unjust. To those of us who had instructed, we know how difficult it is. So, has anyone ran into this sort of discrimination?

wha happen · Post by **wha happen** » Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:34 am

not yet. If i did i would probably kick him in the balls. Or send him out with a ten hour student for the first lesson in the circuit. Then dare him to come back and tell me that it is not "real" time.

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:02 am

If you find someone that says that instructing isn't "real" flight time, please send them to me at CYSH.

I will strap them in the front seat of my Pitts S-2B and I will proceed, as an aerobatic instructor, to demonstrate 10 gyroscopic tumbles, one right after another.

Then I will land, and ask the person to repeat his opinion that my instructor time (including that flight) isn't "real"

http://www.pittspecials.com

Luscombe · Post by **Luscombe** » Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:46 pm

On my earlier post, I forgot to mention what happened to my resume at one prospective employer. I got the story from a friend of mine who just happened to be in the office at the time.

The Chief Pilot was reviewing some resumes that came in (mine was hand-delivered by my friend). At that time, I had a few thousand hours mostly on bush planes etc... but due to work slowdowns/layoffs etc, I blew the dust off my old instructor rating and was teaching at a local school. The CP just looked at my most recent job (flight instructor) and said "Not another f***ing flight instructor" and then threw my resume in the garbage. My buddy's jaw just hit the floor. He waited until the CP was out the door and he phoned me. I'm glad he did since I was kind of waiting for a response. That made me realize that 1) this company was one of those "instructor un-friendly" companies and 2) maybe I should contour my resume in the future rather than use a "one size fits all" resume.

I now work for an "instructor friendly" company that considers instruction time as real time.

And they all lived happily ever after.

EPR1.6 · Post by **EPR1.6** » Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:47 pm

I sure hope that practice is only just a rumour!

If it is, then I guess all the time those same pilots spend training other pilots on their aircraft shouldn't count as 'real' time either!

LostinRotation · Post by **LostinRotation** » Wed Jul 27, 2005 7:02 pm

Hedley wrote:If you find someone that says that instructing isn't "real" flight time, please send them to me at CYSH.

I will strap them in the front seat of my Pitts S-2B and I will proceed, as an aerobatic instructor, to demonstrate 10 gyroscopic tumbles, one right after another.

Then I will land, and ask the person to repeat his opinion that my instructor time (including that flight) isn't "real"

http://www.pittspecials.com

I completely agree that instructing is " real time " and infact alot more real than a scenic flight from point A to Point B 30 nm away ( I am an instructor myself ), but if I put my opinion aside, lied and said it wasn't real time...would you still take me for that flight ?

-=0=LIR=0=-

Right Seat Captain · Post by **Right Seat Captain** » Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:03 pm

In contrast, I know some companies prefer to have flight instructors. In terms of low time pilots being considered for a position, instructors have much more PDM experience, and are already familiar with working in a two-crew environment.

wha happen · Post by **wha happen** » Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:57 pm

good point RSC

privateer · Post by **privateer** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:41 am

I would just like to say that not everybody can be a Flight Instructor. It takes SKILLS that some people just don't have.

Big Pistons Forever · Post by **Big Pistons Forever** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:11 pm

I would say that anything more than 1500 hrs of SE Instructing seems to be heavily discounted outside of the flight school environment. Is it fair, No, but it is unfortunately the reality. ME Instructing time, however seems to be treated better.

Pugster · Post by **Pugster** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:20 pm

I agree with Big Pistons...

My current company seems to really like hiring instructors for the right seat, especially those who were teaching multi-IFR.

If anyone is searching for the mentioned type of discrimination, just start applying at all companies you can find on the net with an online application, and it won't take you long to run across some with "instructor time" listed on the application. And no, it's not considered a good thing...but rest assured there's lots of companies out there that think instructing is a valuable way to build your hours.

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:29 pm

I too did the instructor route, and it has been a very useful experience. I consider it to be the foundation of my flying skills and knowledge.
But I do agree that 1500 (really 1000) or more of single engine instructional time is almost useless, and probably a detriment to your career. At that point you’re so proficient at teaching that you next to never have to touch the controls, you teach almost by talking. Flying is a skill and it degrades with disuse.
I also find it harder to fly with higher time instructors as they feel they should be a quick upgrade. They are used teaching, and not used to being taught. Although this is more a poor attitude then anything else.

For the record I’m not placing all high time instructors in that category. Most of my copilots and fellow captains were instructors (some were pretty high time), and are a treat to work with.
It’s just the odd know it all that gives us a bad name.

Cheers.

hazatude · Post by **hazatude** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:49 pm

"The best way to learn is to teach."

-Greg Haza 2005

Right Seat Captain · Post by **Right Seat Captain** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:54 pm

hazatude wrote:"The best way to learn is to teach."

-Greg Haza 2005

Well said.

bob sacamano · Post by **bob sacamano** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 9:02 pm

hazatude wrote:"The best way to learn is to teach."

-Greg Haza 2005

Goéry Delacôte ripped off your quote dude...

Here's a quote for instructors to think of;

It is not the answer that enlightens but the question.

- Eugène Ionesco

Switchfoot · Post by **Switchfoot** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 9:19 pm

Right Seat Captain wrote:In contrast, I know some companies prefer to have flight instructors. In terms of low time pilots being considered for a position, instructors have much more PDM experience, and are already familiar with working in a two-crew environment.

An interesting point...I was told during my last interview that they 'prefer' instructors. My new job is right-seat in a King Air 200 starting in two weeks.

Switch.

just curious · Post by **just curious** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:47 am

For what it's worth, we don't discount instructor time. I know companies including ours have had pilots start with us, who subsequently were revealed to be, well... jackasses. Occaisionally they were ex-instructors, but jackasses can come from all backgrounds as far as we can tell.

hazatude · Post by **hazatude** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 2:11 pm

Goéry Delacôte will be hearing from my team of high priced e-lawyers!

. ._ · Post by **. ._** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 2:54 pm

How the hell do you put those accent aigus and shit in there?

You are the master of the internet, hazatude. (OK, now I'm blowing sunshine.) But I don't know how get the eh in my cliche.

-istp

hazatude · Post by **hazatude** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:01 pm

I actually just copy and pasted the name. A french language keyboard might have that shit on it though.

bob sacamano · Post by **bob sacamano** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 5:53 pm

istp wrote:How the hell do you put those accent aigus and shit in there?

È.....É.....Ê

You'll strike oil in your computer's 'character map'.

ﺤﻤﺮ