Situation for Jazz New Hires

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Texan1256
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Re: Situation for Jazz New Hires

Post by Texan1256 »

Where do they run the ground school courses, at each respective base or in YYZ?
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Radiocaster
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Re: Situation for Jazz New Hires

Post by Radiocaster »

All training in YYZ. Some classic course in YVR. I would also like to know what is the experience of the new hire pool.
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Apollo
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Re: Situation for Jazz New Hires

Post by Apollo »

For the upcoming groundschool, are there any rumours of the allotments?
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prestonlad
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Re: Situation for Jazz New Hires

Post by prestonlad »

I am In the feb 23 ground school and have 3000 hrs , lots of pic and turbine. I am also very happy to be there !
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BingBong
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Re: Situation for Jazz New Hires

Post by BingBong »

Apollo wrote:For the upcoming groundschool, are there any rumours of the allotments?
I posted this in another thread. As far as a pet groundschool basis is imagine the YYC Q spots will be the first to be filled. With new planes coming and the fact that us YYZ crews are always out there I'd hazard that guess. But like I also said with the PML guys leaving the openings throught the entire system will be fast and furious for the foreseeable future.

Bid Award is out. Here are the following vacancies however I do believe that as guys leave for AC these vacancies will change drastically:

YYZ DH8 3
YYZ DH4 1
YYZ CRJ 1

YUL DH8 1

YYC DH8 3
YYC DH4 9

Good luck to all those who apply and can't wait to see you on your ALPA dinner day!
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Apollo
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Re: Situation for Jazz New Hires

Post by Apollo »

Thanks!

Hopefully there will be some YYC spots for us noobies! Gotta practice my number out of a hat picking skills!
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BingBong
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Re: Situation for Jazz New Hires

Post by BingBong »

when I picked mine I was the third in my class. When I drew the next one it said 7 3/4. It was the oddest senioroty number
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CBcloud9
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Re: Situation for Jazz New Hires

Post by CBcloud9 »

Has anyone received calls for the the March 9th Groundschool?
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Maver!ck
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Re: Situation for Jazz New Hires

Post by Maver!ck »

CBcloud9 wrote:Has anyone received calls for the the March 9th Groundschool?
Yup !
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dirk82
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Re: Situation for Jazz New Hires

Post by dirk82 »

av8ts wrote:New hire FO pay scale from the MOU

Year 1---36.00
2---37.00
3---38.00
4---40.00
5---47.00
6---53.23
7---58.95 dash8-100/300 cap
8---63.31

The scale goes to 15 years but I couldn't get paste to work. Add 2% to the scale every year plus at least 10000$ in tax free meal expense
That cant be right. After 5 years you dont even crack 50 a year????? How are they filling gs?

Nothing like working your ass off to get an ATPL and then go make the least amount of your career after you have it. I hope they at least give you a small shot of lube before you bend over for this one.
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rudder
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Re: Situation for Jazz New Hires

Post by rudder »

dirk82 wrote:
av8ts wrote:New hire FO pay scale from the MOU

Year 1---36.00
2---37.00
3---38.00
4---40.00
5---47.00
6---53.23
7---58.95 dash8-100/300 cap
8---63.31

The scale goes to 15 years but I couldn't get paste to work. Add 2% to the scale every year plus at least 10000$ in tax free meal expense
That cant be right. After 5 years you dont even crack 50 a year????? How are they filling gs?

Nothing like working your ass off to get an ATPL and then go make the least amount of your career after you have it. I hope they at least give you a small shot of lube before you bend over for this one.
What Jazz is selling is that after 3-4 years you will go CAPT. For pilots hired in 2015 it will be closer to 7-8 years to left seat. Pilots hired in 2017 and after might be looking at junior left seat in year 4 but even that is not assured if the plan to shrink the fleet is accurate.

Prospective pilots can vote with their wallets and avoid this situation (ridiculously low entry level wages). Once Jazz realize that they are unable to meet the commercial schedule due to lack of new-hire pilots then market forces will prevail and the entry level pay offered will have to go up.
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Kosiw
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Re: Situation for Jazz New Hires

Post by Kosiw »

rudder wrote:
dirk82 wrote:
av8ts wrote:New hire FO pay scale from the MOU

Year 1---36.00
2---37.00
3---38.00
4---40.00
5---47.00
6---53.23
7---58.95 dash8-100/300 cap
8---63.31

The scale goes to 15 years but I couldn't get paste to work. Add 2% to the scale every year plus at least 10000$ in tax free meal expense
That cant be right. After 5 years you dont even crack 50 a year????? How are they filling gs?

Nothing like working your ass off to get an ATPL and then go make the least amount of your career after you have it. I hope they at least give you a small shot of lube before you bend over for this one.
What Jazz is selling is that after 3-4 years you will go CAPT. For pilots hired in 2015 it will be closer to 7-8 years to left seat. Pilots hired in 2017 and after might be looking at junior left seat in year 4 but even that is not assured if the plan to shrink the fleet is accurate.

Prospective pilots can vote with their wallets and avoid this situation (ridiculously low entry level wages). Once Jazz realize that they are unable to meet the commercial schedule due to lack of new-hire pilots then market forces will prevail and the entry level pay offered will have to go up.
Nice sentiment, but this will probably take years to occur.
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rudder
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Re: Situation for Jazz New Hires

Post by rudder »

Kosiw wrote:
Nice sentiment, but this will probably take years to occur.
With the projected hiring at Encore, Skyregional, Jazz and Porter plus the attrition rates to AC (which will be particularly significant at Jazz) there will be huge demand and competition for the limited pool of pilots qualified and able to fill tier 2 positions.

At some point, one or more of these carriers will come to the realization that they are not getting either enough applicants or enough pilots showing up for training on Day 1. Already happening in the US. And now signing bonuses are being offered as well as retention bonuses. Either way, the total wages paid at the tier 2 entry level rose as a function of supply and demand.

Perhaps Jazz will go the way of retention bonuses (i.e. extra $2500 for each 90 days spent on Jazz payroll). Perhaps it will be something else. But the fact is that Jazz is not offering anything more than a Jazz seniority number and a pay cheque vs what some of the other tier 2 operators are offering (quick upgrades and seniority numbers in the mainline system).

AC could have stepped up and offered more than just an interview as an inducement to prospective Jazz pilots but that did not happen either. And there are good jobs to be had for pilots with some experience at operators like Sunwing, Transat, Cargojet, Morningstar and others. What is almost certain is that status quo of $36/hr and virtually zero pay progression for 4 years will not prevail.
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Kosiw
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Re: Situation for Jazz New Hires

Post by Kosiw »

rudder wrote:
Kosiw wrote:
Nice sentiment, but this will probably take years to occur.
With the projected hiring at Encore, Skyregional, Jazz and Porter plus the attrition rates to AC (which will be particularly significant at Jazz) there will be huge demand and competition for the limited pool of pilots qualified and able to fill tier 2 positions.

At some point, one or more of these carriers will come to the realization that they are not getting either enough applicants or enough pilots showing up for training on Day 1. Already happening in the US. And now signing bonuses are being offered as well as retention bonuses. Either way, the total wages paid at the tier 2 entry level rose as a function of supply and demand.

Perhaps Jazz will go the way of retention bonuses (i.e. extra $2500 for each 90 days spent on Jazz payroll). Perhaps it will be something else. But the fact is that Jazz is not offering anything more than a Jazz seniority number and a pay cheque vs what some of the other tier 2 operators are offering (quick upgrades and seniority numbers in the mainline system).

AC could have stepped up and offered more than just an interview as an inducement to prospective Jazz pilots but that did not happen either. And there are good jobs to be had for pilots with some experience at operators like Sunwing, Transat, Cargojet, Morningstar and others. What is almost certain is that status quo of $36/hr and virtually zero pay progression for 4 years will not prevail.
Care to "crystal ball" as to a time line for the tier 2's to start hurting for pilots ?
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rudder
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Re: Situation for Jazz New Hires

Post by rudder »

Kosiw wrote:
rudder wrote:
Kosiw wrote:
Nice sentiment, but this will probably take years to occur.
With the projected hiring at Encore, Skyregional, Jazz and Porter plus the attrition rates to AC (which will be particularly significant at Jazz) there will be huge demand and competition for the limited pool of pilots qualified and able to fill tier 2 positions.

At some point, one or more of these carriers will come to the realization that they are not getting either enough applicants or enough pilots showing up for training on Day 1. Already happening in the US. And now signing bonuses are being offered as well as retention bonuses. Either way, the total wages paid at the tier 2 entry level rose as a function of supply and demand.

Perhaps Jazz will go the way of retention bonuses (i.e. extra $2500 for each 90 days spent on Jazz payroll). Perhaps it will be something else. But the fact is that Jazz is not offering anything more than a Jazz seniority number and a pay cheque vs what some of the other tier 2 operators are offering (quick upgrades and seniority numbers in the mainline system).

AC could have stepped up and offered more than just an interview as an inducement to prospective Jazz pilots but that did not happen either. And there are good jobs to be had for pilots with some experience at operators like Sunwing, Transat, Cargojet, Morningstar and others. What is almost certain is that status quo of $36/hr and virtually zero pay progression for 4 years will not prevail.
Care to "crystal ball" as to a time line for the tier 2's to start hurting for pilots ?
Encore has already found outside what happens if what you are offering is at the low end of the spectrum. Some action was taken (not enough) and apparently the application drawer has been replenished.

I see 2017 as a problem year for some tier 2 carriers as attrition/growth at AC kicks in to high gear. Jazz will be most affected although the Jazz fleet is planned to shrink which will partially offset any shortfall in applicants. What will really get the attention of Jazz will be recent hire pilot departures to non-AC carriers.

Only time will tell but over the next decade almost 2000 airline pilots will be turning 65 in Canada. I don't think that there are nearly enough pilots entering the commercial pilot training pipeline to fill the void that will result.
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Stinky
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Re: Situation for Jazz New Hires

Post by Stinky »

Already happening in the US. And now signing bonuses are being offered as well as retention bonuses. Either way, the total wages paid at the tier 2 entry level rose as a function of supply and demand.
Have a look at this GAO report regarding the fictional airline pilot in the U.S. There's a reason why the airlines are offering bonuses but not raising wages.
I've cut and paste a line found on page 33
These new low wages at Jazz are here to say, best case scenario would be a signing bonus during period where attracting pilots is tight.

http://gao.gov/assets/670/661243.pdf

Improve wages and fringe benefits. Increasing wages will help
increase the number of personnel willing to work in a particular
position or occupation. However, employers are reluctant to do this
because they may be forced to raise the wages of current employees
as well. Further, unlike some other actions, once wages are raised, it is unlikely that they will be reduced later if hiring becomes less
difficult
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Flyboycanada80
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Re: Situation for Jazz New Hires

Post by Flyboycanada80 »

Say a pilot starts at Jazz today with his ATPL and about 3000 hours. He takes a pay cut and a big lifestyle change and takes a right seat on Jazz. How soon realistically until he gets an opportunity at the left seat?
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AllClutch
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Re: Situation for Jazz New Hires

Post by AllClutch »

Realistic projections say 5-7 years. Could be less or more.
Be warned that the most junior captain right now is about 8 years.
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Flyboycanada80
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Re: Situation for Jazz New Hires

Post by Flyboycanada80 »

AllClutch wrote:Realistic projections say 5-7 years. Could be less or more.
Be warned that the most junior captain right now is about 8 years.
Ok so say an FO that starts today get upgraded in 5 years. Does he then start at yr1 cap payscale or yr5 cap payscale. Thats a huge difference and may be a deciding factor.

Also the new employees that start now are or are not on "the list" for AC. Are they just interviews or job offers?

Is there a seniority # you carry forward to AC if you do get offered and decide down the road to goto AC?

Are the current Jazz captains leaving Jazz or is the problem that the Captains have it good and are not interested in moving on, thus upgrades are slow.

thanks for the info.
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Krimson
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Re: Situation for Jazz New Hires

Post by Krimson »

Year 1 pay, not on the list, and no carry over seniority to AC.
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