Do you have university degree?

[LH]

Let's see if I understand YOUR position. I'm understanding that unless one goes to university, they have not demonstrated "the drive and ability" to reach higher levels and that it can only be demonstrated by going to university. Sorry sir, don't join those two dots because you'll be terribly embarrassed one day.....trust me.

I'm sorry also to inform you that lonnnnng before I graduated university in my 40's, that I had more than demonstrated my "drive and ability" to reach higher levels. I'd demonstrated that in the US Military, the RCMP and later on to a host of CP's and Ops Managers. I was not singular at all and many others did the exact same thing........and continue to do so. WHAT the degree did do for me though years later, was to convince certain people that are was more intelligent after having obtained that degree than I was before. What I had actually done was became more learned in a particular discipline. Other than that, there were and still are lots around with no more than Grade X, who are much smarter than me about a host of subjects and they "catch-on" just as easy and easier in some cases than I ever did. I learned many, many years ago that some of the stupidest people I ever met resided at universities and the some of the smartest people I ever met never made it to Grade XII.

Understand also that I am not "putting-down" higher education because learning more throughout life is what we all do, whether we attend an "institution" to do that or learn it in other ways.......nobody escapes that process anywhere. If the guideline is that attending university demonstrates the willingness and ability to learn, then why doesn't completion of High School domonstrate the same thing? It can only be demonstrated on a university level?

[Legacy]

Jeez if you ever watched "The Apprentice" you can figure that degrees don't mean squat. Remember the challenge between the "street smarts" (who had no post secondary education) against the bookworms (Harvard, Yale grads)? The street smarts beat the other ying yangs hands down. Sorry to say but degrees just dont mean **** other than you can AFFORD to get a degree.

[justplanecrazy]

Let's see if I understand YOUR position. I'm understanding that unless one goes to university, they have not demonstrated "the drive and ability" to reach higher levels and that it can only be demonstrated by going to university. Sorry sir, don't join those two dots because you'll be terribly embarrassed one day.....trust me.

No I'm not saying unless you have gone to university you don't have the drive or ability etc. What I am saying is that if you have gone to university, then you have shown it.

Let me put it to you this way. You can have a kid who is in grade 7 and has read and understood 50 books at the grade 12 level but has never written a grade 12 reading comprehension test. So now you have another kid who is just as smart but has written the test and passed. The parents apply to the schoolboard for an english fast-track. The first kids parents say, "My kid has the drive and ability to be fast-tracked to grade 8 English. He's currently reading grade 12 books and had a complete grasp with everything covered." The other kids parents simply hand the Principal the reading comprehension test. In the principals mind, who do you think he would choose as the most likely to make it?

Same thing is with AC. They have two kids applying for a job. One has a degree showing a demonstrated learning ability. (test results). The other has no degree but a bunch of work experience etc. (read a lot of books). Don't you think it would make sense if you were them to put the resume of the first guy just ahead of the other guy. They'll still look at both and if in the interview the first guy appears to be a complete moron, I'm sure they wouldn't hang onto him and not look at the other guy.

Once again, we should be asking why there's a second language on the point system not why someone with more education would be accepted into a ground "school".

[Raybanman]

It just bothers me a little that to some, finishing high school, busting my ass (and my bank account) to get all my tickets and then working hard for a few thousand hours and 3 or 4 type ratings just doesn't compare. I've flown with people that cant do much more than chew their tonues and they've come from both backgrounds. I'd venture to say that getting hired anywhere depends much more on your attitude and what your previous employers have to say about you than any degree or lack there of.

I'm not saying UNI is a waste of time, people like circlingfor69 piss me off for the same reason he's pissed off. I'm not a bumpkin because I couldn't afford to go get a degree in aviation buisness admin. I just did it a different way. I still learn to fly the same airplanes university grads do, and for all I can tell it really doesn't make a difference. You don't need an electrical engineering degree to understand how the electrical system on a dash 8 or 767 works. Read the books, They TELL you how it works. On the other hand, it can't hurt.

/endrant

[YYC the place to be]

My Flight Training is just as important if not more important than a university degree. I believe that the training a trades person gets is just as important as a university degree. In today's world a university degree just goes to show that you have some money and can afford to get a degree. I doesn't show that you are any smarter or more important that someone without.


That is my 2 cents, if you have a problem don't be a ass hole about it please. If you really have a problem with what I say you can PM me, but don't express your problem with my statment in public. Thanx

[Bede]

No I'm not saying unless you have gone to university you don't have the drive or ability etc. What I am saying is that if you have gone to university, then you have shown it.

I have been to university and just because you graduated doesn't mean you have shown that you have the ability or drive. Perhaps you just came from a well to do family. Arts courses are some of the easiest things to master. (With the exception of economics perhaps). A kid can drink and party for four years and still come out with a fancy certificate and be 60K in the hole. I'm glad I have some post secondary, only because AC seems to like it, but the majority of my knowledge base was formed by reading outside of university.

[classiv]

Every 6 months this topic comes up without fail...

It's basically a have's versus have not's issues and people just see what they want to see to make themselves feel good.

[LH]

justplanecrazy ----what is it about learning to fly a large aircraft and taking the appropriate ground school course on the Airbus or 747 that you feel or anyone feels, requires a degree in something? BEFORE I obtained my degree in later life, I had flown straight jet, turbo-prop, piston, helcopters up to the 44 pax size (piston and jet) and passed a host of Ground Schools given by manufacturers, military, company employers and courses by the engine providers for some of those a/c. Not once did I have any problems learning or retaining and all items pertaining to chemistry/physics/math were all adeqautely taken care of with my Grade XII basics. There was no advanced calculus and Trig/Algebra/Geometry sufficed to the "nth degree". If I would have had to run tests as a Test Pilot and converse and pass-on engineering flight information on an engineering level to Aeronautical Engineers or Mechanical Engineers then I would have had to have more schooling in order to read designs, drawings, very sophisticated electrical schematics, etc., etc.

After I obtained my degree I could not have done a better job on the aforementioned over the eons, than I did without one. I suppose, in justice to your point and the many points of others, that I was lucky enough to have taken the right "options" when I chose some of my Grade XII courses. I fully understand that many drop courses in High School that later in life they regret and perhaps also regreat that as early as applying for entrance to certain Faculties at the beginning of university. All degrees are not the same in knowledge about certain things and I also fully understand that all Grade XII's are not equal either because not everyone chooses the same options course-wise and therfore are not all equal knowledge-wise on ALL subjects "Grade XII". I was taught two years of Economics by the time I graduated High School, but the same was not available to my own kids and as a result they had their Grade XII's, but without a gram of knowledge about Economics. They had though, more than demonstrated their ability to learn and retain other subject knowledge and showed me nor other any indication that they would have "choked" trying to learn Economics. We all both had our Grade XII's though. Depending on where one completes their Grade XII, not all mandatory "Core Subjects" are the same and therein lies the reason for not all Grade XII's being the same.

[justplanecrazy]

double post.

[justplanecrazy]

I don't believe that working for AC requries a degree... and neither do they!!! Can you please read the top line again before replying to my post.

All I'm pointing out is that they have a stack of resume's of overqualified applicants and they are trying to make the initial stack, for those first round of interviews, smaller. If someone has a background on a Metro and another applicant on a C172 but has a degree, they're not going to take the second guy over the first. They're simply trying to find a quick way to figure out how to limit the number of first round applicants. Going through each individual's references and work backgrounds would take a lifetime. I do agree that they are missing valuable points in other areas such as an AME certificate etc., but that's just the way it is.

[Kernal Klink]

Spend the damn 60K in university on something worth more, like getting time on an aircraft on floats.... from there you can go anywhere. Especially with 60K worth of time. Seems like some guys on here spend too much time bitchin and not enough time flying.

[LH]

justplaincrazy ------ I wasn't referring to just AC, but the multitude of American airlines and others internationally that do require a degree and have for quite some time. I also have no problem with your statements in your last post because I also stated the same thing not many posts before you.

Kernel Klink ------if your reference was directed towards me, then you'll have to excuse me because I "timed-out" last rotation.

[Kernal Klink]

No, not at you buddy... at least you're driving for a living like most of us here.

[LH]

Okay then, but maybe a "tad" of a bitch on my part For 30 years I wasn't "timed-out" with this many hours and nobody thought any thing of it and no "hallabaloo" about it either. Now I'm told that I am supposedly tired and to fly anymore would be unsafe. If that is correct, then for 30 years I was "an accident looking for a place to happen". It would therfore lead me to believe that I was given false information for 30 years or am receiving false information now . End of bitch........return back on course.