Jazz GS with under 1500 hrs TT

[BTD]

Trust me I will never regret it.... This industry hasn't completely erased my self-worth and respect , there's no way I'm takin 34.5K a year to practise my profession and just to sit there for 5 years then go over to mainline to start all over again (maybe even for less $$ by that time)! No thank you!

I don't understand why any of you is surprised, Jazz has hired a fair bit of school grads and pilots under 1000 hrs (I know a few, hence the internal recommend and the call) and I expect the mins will go down as those dollar figures get more and more insulting... I was always interested in flying for jazz, but after seeing the new wages I don't think the airlines are in my future anymore, maybe the arctic regionals in the future if they don't follow suit and offer McDonald wages too but otherwise I am quite happy flying 703-704 in the prairies and making a livable wage.

And to all the other pilots out there considering this "career opportunity", please have some self-respect and self-worth and stop whoring yourselves for that airline suit and airline hat...The chicks won't dig your broke ass, your parents have supported you r grown ass long enough already, and the bank won't take your right seat Q400 time for a mortgage downpayment... I bet you the guy/gal sitting across the table doing your interview has no respect for you and think of you as a dummy for accepting such wages and work conditions.

Rant over. Gotta go warm up those engines it's -40 outside.

Ciao

I smell a troll... otherwise what kind of money do you make with 1400TT? Unless i'm really out of date on this industry, that kind of experience does not net a 50k+ paycheck. Whenever I had a job opportunity in the past I always had a good look at the general package and big picture. When I was a Be10 captain and had an offer from jazz, my initial reaction was to laugh at the 34.2k starting wage, but after digging a little bit deeper you start to realize you get a lot more bang for your coin than the gross figure. The 45k to 34.2k "paycutt" turned out to be offset rather easily with the general jazz package which i'm sure you are aware of since you turned down that job so quickly.

On a side note, as far as being McDo wages, I'd think twice before holding that speech in front of other very respectable working people in society ... myself realizing I was complaining about the stupid new 35k starting wage at jazz while the dentist's assistant was drilling a hole in my mouth...

Problem is not only the money... It's that the position has no real potential as far as pay or career progression unless you want to go fly overseas after. Example, if I was to be hired there tomorrow I calculated it will take me close to 7 years to make what I make now! (Don't count per diems cause it is NOT pay).. It would take me even longer if I make it to mainline since I will probably have to go down the seniority list again.

Also regarding that dental assistant, did he/she spend upward of 60K on their training ? Did they have to go work the ramp for a year tossing bags in -40 to get their chance at a seat ? Did they have to live in buttduck nowhere for 2 years to get experience and move up ? They made a career choice and it's not my fault that their career choice pays peanuts. I worked hard and followed my dreams and became a PROFESSIONAL PILOT so yes I deserve to be paid like a one.

The irony of this statement is quite funny. The same could be said of any pilot. You (anyone) made a career choice and it isn't their fault it pays peanuts. How much we all paid for our training is irrelevant.

[Canoehead]

flythatwing,

Do you mind if I ask your age?

I'm in my early thirties. Did I sound old ? haha.

No. Kinda the contrary.

[flythatwing]

The irony of this statement is quite funny. The same could be said of any pilot. You (anyone) made a career choice and it isn't their fault it pays peanuts. How much we all paid for our training is irrelevant.

I don't make peanuts... My first flying job on a small single piston paid more than what jazz is paying their new FOs now AND I got FREE accommodation. Sorry not sorry, no irony.

[Canoehead]

The question was how much experience was "needed", which I interpreted as what the airline's requirements should be.

No, I meant how much experience does one really need to fly this airplane competently. I am a Captain on a Q400. It is an easy airplane to fly. Sure I worked hard to get where I am, but really, do I really need all the experience I accumulated to fly this airplane competently? I got the experience the company required to get to the position I hold, but I think one could fly this airplane with far less.

You and anyone can likely "competently" operate the airplane (or any airplane from an Airbus to a Zenith). That is really all the MBA's care about. What is more important to the profession, is can you operate it well? And if the chips are down, are you confidant in your own abilities and the person beside you? Just because someone thinks they are "experienced" (or are experienced according to company requirements) doesn't mean they are good. I made that point in the Transasia thread I think: they were touted as experienced pilots, but their skill in handling their issue tells me they really weren't experienced at all.

(A little side rant because I get tired of seeing mediocre pilots who think they are "good" at what they do; not aimed at you KK7).

[BTD]

The irony of this statement is quite funny. The same could be said of any pilot. You (anyone) made a career choice and it isn't their fault it pays peanuts. How much we all paid for our training is irrelevant.

I don't make peanuts... My first flying job on a small single piston paid more than what jazz is paying their new FOs now AND I got FREE accommodation. Sorry not sorry, no irony.

I meant that that statement could apply to our industry as well, or any industry. I didn't mean you individually hence (anyone).

The experience relevant to the job and the responsibility is what compensation should be based on among some other relevant things. Not how much we spent on education, how long we threw bags in what temperatures or how badly we want to be paid more. All that is irrelevant.

[goingnowherefast]

I'm sure two 1500 hour pilots can competently handle an A320, happens all the time in the military with similar types. However, when Capt Sullenberger landed on the river, I'm sure glad he was the PIC. From a legal point, the 1500 hour pilot could be just as qualified, but it was Sully's experience that saved the day.

Not to belittle anybody, but I'm sure a 100 hour pilot could be trained to pass a captain check ride on a Q400. Might take 50 hrs in the sim, but regardless, as soon as there's a situation not covered in training, their lack of experience will be disastrous.

Jazz used to pay for experience, and had a hiring requirement of ATPL, but now they don't seem to care as much.

[flythatwing]

As someone who has spent enough time in this industry - like close to 50 yrs -- fuk -- really -- time flies when you are having fun -- the biggest decision you will have to make at a point in your career and likely the earlier the better is to take the hit in pay and get a seniority number and hope your choice was right as far as having a job until you retire -- JAZZ is a good company now and it has had a great number of lifers but they are the exception in level 2 carriers - the other 2 are the level 2 northern carriers as for the other connectors they do not offer career life styles but they also have potential if they organize and work on negotiating reasonable contracts but that would be 10 to 15 years down range -- yup it takes that long to achieve a contract that allows you cut down on the KY -- one can hold out for the level 1 carriers but there is no guarantee you will get hired -- but I am one who can verify there is a good life in canadian aviation without air canada or westjet

I do agree with you to a point and respect your experience regarding taking hit in pay (short term pain for long term gain) BUT the big question here is : where do we draw the line ?.. Would be a smart move now to leave a well-paying job on a well-maintained machine, where I am home every night almost to work somewhere for 7 to 10 years to make what I am making now ? And what's the next step after going to jazz ? Go to mainline and start from the bottom again since Jazz is only a stepping stone company now ?

I really have nothing against jazz or the fine guys/gals working there, everyone I know there is top notch pilot and individual. Jazz HAD to adapt to the cruel market (thanks to AG,SR and finally Encore) or vanish and I realize that...It just sucks to see another what used-to-be destination airline become a no-frills "come get your time and get lost kind of operation."

One Grumpy Pilot.

[flythatwing]

The irony of this statement is quite funny. The same could be said of any pilot. You (anyone) made a career choice and it isn't their fault it pays peanuts. How much we all paid for our training is irrelevant.

I don't make peanuts... My first flying job on a small single piston paid more than what jazz is paying their new FOs now AND I got FREE accommodation. Sorry not sorry, no irony.

I meant that that statement could apply to our industry as well, or any industry. I didn't mean you individually hence (anyone).

The experience relevant to the job and the responsibility is what compensation should be based on among some other relevant things. Not how much we spent on education, how long we threw bags in what temperatures or how badly we want to be paid more. All that is irrelevant.

Yes you are correct... Then look at it this way. A dental assistant makes a mistake, few stitches an apology and maybe a law suit and everyone carries on. A pilot makes a mistake, people lose their lives.

[human garbage]

... otherwise what kind of money do you make with 1400TT? Unless i'm really out of date on this industry, that kind of experience does not net a 50k+ paycheck

I was making 48K at 1109 TT. Survey work. That was nine years ago now too... Made 55K driving a 'Ho at ~1500 the next year so that wasn't just an aberration.

I don't have anything else to add to this thread. I've ditched aviation as a vocation due in large part to crap pay. Not judging, just saying, and to each their own. But I have a trades background and can make way more cash doing that instead of flying.

[goingnowherefast]

Would be a smart move now to leave a well-paying job on a well-maintained machine, where I am home every night almost...

Yep, you should leave now, and give me a good recommendation on your way out so I can have your job once you are gone. (meant in the most sarcastic sense possible).

[AuxBatOn]

Jazz used to pay for experience, and had a hiring requirement of ATPL, but now they don't seem to care as much.

Because this proves anything on the quality of your experience...

[goingnowherefast]

They used to, and still do interviews and sim evals to determine the quality of a person's experience (among other things). The resume is simply the amount of experience.

[Illya Kuryakin]

Jazz used to pay for experience, and had a hiring requirement of ATPL, but now they don't seem to care as much.

Because this proves anything on the quality of your experience...

True to a point, but at least it's a starting point.
Illya

[awitzke]

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