TC ATPL to FAA ATP Conversion - ACTION NEEDED

[rico-db9]

I just had a conversation with Flight Crew Licensing (fcl@tc.gc.ca) at Transport Canada.

As you may know, as of August 1, 2014 the FAA changed the rules on converting a TC ATPL to an FAA ATP.

It used to be that we had a reciprocal agreement that since the CARS and FARS were nearly identical and since Canada and the US has maintained Free-Trade in the aviation industry LONG before free trade was even around, pilots from Canada could reasonably easily convert their TC licences to FAA licenses and vice versa.

Now it is now required that ATPL holders take a USD$4,000-5,000 course (plus a flight and week in a hotel which is another $5000) to obtain a Certificate BEFORE being allowed to write the exam. This is tantamount to a $10,000 fee placed in front of Canadian flyers while US ATP holders merely have to come to Canada and write a $100 test.

WHAT A RIP!!!

I informed Transport of this roadblock the FAA has thrown up to essentially block Canadian ATPL holders from converting to FAA ATP. They are aware of it as well as the folks in Ottawa. They are genuinely distressed.

I also spoke with a nice chap with the FAA in Oklahoma and he is confused at this decision as well. Even he doesn't think its fair.

I expressed my deep concern Transport about this is completely unfair and is an obstructionist policy imposed by the FAA.

The lady at Transport Canada suggested that US... ALL OF US... get off out @sses and write a letter to Transport Canada objecting to this roadblock thrown up by the FAA and asking they pressure for a change in the rules for TC ATPL holders.

Canadian ATPL pilots should be exempt from this requirement.

The squeaky wheel folks... it will not happen unless WE (voters) raise our voice.

IT'S EASY AND WILL TAKE YOU 5 MINUTES!!.

Use this email as a baseline for your email.

Flight Crew Licensing (fcl@tc.gc.ca)

[hst]

I've gone through the conversion process 6 years ago so I emphasize with you.

Two suggestions to maximize response. Pilot's are lazy.

1) Provide a link to this new requirement in your original message.

2) Attach a form letter outlining this unfair practice so pilots can fill in their name and licence # copy and send email.


If you haven't already post on theairlinewebsite.com and others...

Good luck.

[rigpiggy]

Not a really a roadblock to canadian's as they have the same requirements for their own people. This is causing all kinds of issues down there already. They are putting Autopilots in B1900 and restricting to 9 seats because they can't get rhs people.

[Stinky]

I don't think it will change as a result of any action by Canadians. All it would do is open up a loophole for Americans to get their ATP here first and then convert.

I believe the new law can only be changed through an act of congress. The most likely way this will change is with the U.S. regionals putting pressure on the government. They have a lot more power than a handful of foreigners.

[SuperchargedRS]

Pressure, they have already done that and created the "r-ATP" for people who graduated from certified schools and some other nonsense, ether way its of no help to Canadians trying to get their FAA ATP.

Sadly I doubt these rules are going to change, good news is it might help folks down here with ATPs!

[nortont]

Not only difficulty with getting the U.S. ATP now...

Try getting a visa or approval for foreigners (Canadians) to take the required courses for training in the USA. Likely a road block there with U.S. Homeland Security & Customs as well...

i.e. fingerprints etc.

[snoopy]

Well, I obtained my FAA ATP fixed wing right after 9-11 by doing the full conversion process (even though IPL was available) - exam, crash ATP course and IFR ride. It didn't cost nearly that much and was quite painless.

Last year I obtained my FAA ATP heli credentials by doing the full conversion process (IPL not available for heli) - exam (no course required) and IFR ride. It didn't cost nearly that much and was quite painless.

Even directly after 9-11 I was not required to obtain bonds or extra paperwork required to train in the US.

In both cases, the process was fun (well, except for the studying part) and I viewed it as good professional development. I did rides in both cases, and met the FAA proficiency requirements. Really, not a big deal.

Its amazing to me that Transport Canada doesn't require any kind of check ride (outside of the IFR) to achieve an ATP.

My pet peeve is that the seaplane ratings (single and multi) and considerable experience are not transferable and thus two rides are required to achieve those ratings on my US license. That said, Canada and the US are not the same countries and the NAFTA agreement does not extend to pilot employment though originally it was meant to.

Personally I would gladly expend energy on rallying to include aviation in the NAFTA agreement (with respect to employment) but quite frankly the licensing part was not a huge deal. If pilot employment was included in NAFTA there would be a better case to include the licensing process. Most ICAO countries around the world have country-specific requirements. If you think the FAA conversion is bad, take a look at the requirements for the JAR license.

Cheers,
snoopy

[capt.pilot]

I would suggest you do a little research with a FSDO. I spent the afternoon (today) with an Inspector, and the new 60 Question ATPL Mulitengine (ACM) conversion exam is available now so the process remains the same as before the change in August. He happened to be a fellow DC3 driver so we got along famously..


Just my $.02

[JohnnyHotRocks]

I called Oklahoma two weeks ago and was told (by the person in charge of the validation paperwork), that the CPT course is now a requirement. Sounds like another case of bumbling FAA inspectors feeding the wrong information to someone....yes there is a new exam, but that is not the only requirement.

[intake]

Any updates on this subject.

[tallyho]

I have tore the FAA website apart looking for info on this. I didn't actually call anyone (that's next) but the only info I find is this. This information is still on their website.

If someone can point me to the new regs that would be great.

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/medi ... 61-135.pdf

[Baja Guy]

Revision 1 of the original Implementation Procedures for Licensing was just signed by the FAA on Dec 03/15 and by TC on Dec 10/15 to include the helicopter category now, instead of only fixed wing. In addition, we don't have to take the Part 141 atp course to write the ACH airman knowledge test. So sweet....
I guess this doesn't help you find the info you're looking for, although the appendix within the IPL Revision 1 contains all the pertinent info regarding the conversion process. And Paragraph 1.2 says the implementation date was 90 days after signing so,...... gotta be pretty quick.

[Baja Guy]

Sorry. The above should have said signed by the FAA on Dec 03/14 and TC Dec 10/14. Obviously not dec/15. My bad.

[Stinky]

In addition, we don't have to take the Part 141 atp course to write the ACH airman knowledge test.

Doesn't that just mean you can write the test before taking the ATP course. You would still need the course to apply for the license I think.

[Baja Guy]

No. The most recent update of the airman Knowldge Testing Matrix on Feb 9/15 specifically states that the ACH does Not require any further authorization to write, whereas the ACM and ATM exams require a certificate of completion of the atp course from a part 141 school. We are off the hook for heli's.

[Baja Guy]

Just to clarify and validate go to:
http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/in ... L_rev1.pdf
The conditions for conversion are in the Annex, and the helicopter category starts on page A-7 and goes to page A-13. On page A-13 it states "No further skill/practical testing required*1"
Then, go to here:
http://www.faa.gov/training_testing/tes ... matrix.pdf
Here is where you'll discover that the ACH exam doesn't require "No instructor endorsement or other form of written authorization is required for an initial attempt"
Immediately below that you'll read that for the ACM and ATM only require:
Certificate of completion of an Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) Multiengine Class Rating training program. The certificate must be issued by an authorized 121, 135, 141, or 142 training provider."
For heli's we're off the hook.

[tallyho]

Seems like two exams, and provided you can provide a graduation certificate from an authorized training provider for the ATPL (whatever the hell that means) you can convert your license. I'm talking Aeroplane ATPL here.

A few hoops, but not too bad.

[Baja Guy]

You're right, two exams but each for a specific scenario. The ATM is the exam a U.S. FAA CPLA holder writes to get a U.S. FAA ATPL- aeroplane. The ACM is the exam a Canadian ATPL-A holder writes to convert it to an FAA ATPL-Aeroplane. Either exam require a certificate of completion of the ATPL course as authorization just to write the exam, as per FAA Airman Knowledge Testing Matrix February 9/15.

[tallyho]

Thanks Baja,

Do you have any idea what the graduation certificate is? I don't think I went to a recognised training provider. I just wrote the exams like everyone else.

Thanks

[Baja Guy]

OK, no problem, but I'm not quite sure what you mean by "just wrote the exams like everyone else". I think I need to know which exam you wrote and when you wrote it (before or after Aug 1, 2014). If you have already written and passed the exam for FAA ATPL-A, then you don't need to attend any course whatsoever.
The ATPL course (for airplanes only) consists of ground school and sim time. It it required (since Aug 1, 2014) to be completed before you write the exam. In fact, it's certificate IS your authorization to write the exam. Having said that, I've heard of a few cases where people have written the exam, after Aug 1, without taking the course. I think those lucky individuals simply found an exam proctor who didn't know the changes, or chose to ignore them.
If you wrote an FAA ATPL-A exam after Aug 1, without taking the course, you are one of those lucky people.

[tallyho]

I wrote the TC ATPL exams in 2011. I have not written anything for US ATPL.